On 20 Apr 2013, at 18:43, John Clark wrote:

On Sat, Apr 20, 2013  Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> We don't know that reality is deterministic and in fact right now the overwhelming evidence very strongly suggests that it is not.

> Everett restores determinacy in physics.

Yes, but although I like Everett I don't know for a fact that he is correct,

We can't know truth, in science.




and even if he is from our point of view things are still indeterminate because there is information that we can never obtain, not even in theory much less in practice.


No problem. That's the case for all creatures dreaming in Numberland.





> The SWE's solutions are deterministic.

Yes, but the Schrodinger Wave Equation does not describe physical reality, it describes the Quantum Wave Function. The Quantum Wave Function is very useful and so are the lines of latitude and longitude, and they both have equal physical reality.

Yes. But its solution is the multiverse. Like latitude and longitude refers to relatively real part of the planet.





> I don't think that physical indeterminacy makes sense,

What law of logic demands that every event have a cause?

It is not a law of logic. It my intuition of the physical. Then with comp, it is plausible that all physical events have a cause, actually many competing one in the long run. And the laws of physics have a reason.

Believing that a physical events might not have a cause seems to me like believing in magic.

The law of logic are modest.




I think we're lucky that we live in a universe where at least some events have causes, demanding that all of them do may be asking for too much;

I think that this is fatalism, and encourage the lazyness in thinking. Your philosophy is the type of philosophy which would have mock all tentative to explain things not yet understood. It favors the "don't ask" principle.




but of course if we weren't that lucky and lived in a completely random universe of white noise we wouldn't be around to demand anything.

That's for quasi-sure.





> nor that it is something testable.

If indeterminacy is not testable then neither is determinacy.

It depends on the theory. In a single world universe, both the theory (QM+collapse), and the facts, one universe + violation of Bell's inequality, entails 3-indeterminacy. Of course, MW restores 3- determinacy (leaving 1-indeterminacy only).

Bruno





 John K Clark



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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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