Ummm, Craig, you couldn't tell if you were switched off and on unless you had environmental clues that time when by/shit moved around... I think that you are being a bit specist here. Computers are very much conscious, just not self-aware in any way relatable to our experience of such.
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 8:03 PM, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]>wrote: > > > On Thursday, April 18, 2013 4:32:25 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: > >> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> >> You may be pedantic about the use of anthropomorphic language but I >>>> am not. >>>> >>> >>> > It can become distracting / misleading in deeper discussions about the >>> mechanisms of evolution. >>> >> >> I don't care, anybody who was mislead or distracted and believed >> Evolution could think would be so stupid that I wouldn't care to talk to >> them. And as you once said "who are you to say what's useful or not as a >> tool for other people to think and understand?". >> >> >>> > Emergence is just a way to connect different levels of abstraction. >>> >> >> The trouble is people say X leads to Y but when asked how they just wave >> their hands around and say it's a emergent property, as if that explains >> something. >> >> > What do you mean "useful"? >> >> >> I'm not going to tell you. Any definition I give you will be made of >> words and I have no doubt you would then demand a definition of at least >> one of those words. >> >> >>> >> That's the trouble with this list, everybody is a big picture man >>>> with their own fundamental holistic theories about consciousness >>>> >>>> > Isn't "big picture" the theme of this list? >>> >> >> I thought the theme of this list was everything, and details are >> something. Dilettantes are always big picture men because that is so much >> easier than being a details man; they are VERY big picture men, so big that >> their ideas have made absolutely no changes to science or to anything that >> anyone can measure. >> >> > If consciousness is easier than intelligence >>> >> >> Evolution certainly found that to be the case. >> >> > how come we have scientific progress in the latter and not in the >>> former? >>> >> >> Today's computers are smarter than they were 10 years ago so I think it >> is highly likely that they are more conscious too. >> > > Nobody could think that except someone who is trying hard to believe it. > If anything, computers have become more disposable. Nobody seriously > imagines that any digital device - from their cell phone to Watson, can > tell the difference between being turned off and turned on. They can't > tell, they don't care, there is no 'they' there. The number of circuits > only matters of something cares about using them, and a computer does not > care about anything. > > Craig > > > >> If you have another method for measuring consciousness other than >> intelligent behavior I would very much like to hear about it. >> > > > >> >> > how do you know that intelligence is a requirement of consciousness? >>> >> >> The only consciousness I have direct experience with is my own and I note >> that when I'm sleepy my consciousness is reduced and so is my intelligence, >> when I'm alert the reverse is true. >> >> > Somebody who puts "philosopher" in the occupation line on his tax form >>>> >>> >>> Ok, I guess Plato and Aristotle and the rest of that gang are out then. >>> >> >> Archimedes was a mathematician and he discovered more philosophy than >> Plato and Aristotle combined. >> >> John K Clark >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/K7E-Vfwj4QU/unsubscribe?hl=en > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
