On 08 May 2013, at 22:46, meekerdb wrote:
On 5/8/2013 10:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 08 May 2013, at 11:56, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 07 May 2013, at 20:55, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, May 6, 2013 John Mikes <[email protected]> wrote:
there is no random decay or anything else
There is no way you can deduce that from pure reason and the
experimental
evidence strongly indicates that you are wrong about that.
only things that happen without our - so far - accessed
explanation.
And thanks to experiments involving Bell's inequality we know for
a fact
that if apparently random things happen for a reason they can't
be local
reasons; for example the reason the coin came up heads right now
is because
a billion years in the FUTURE a butterfly like creature on a
planet in the
Andromeda Galaxy flapped it's wings twice instead of 3 times.
Hi Bruno,
You assume the collapse of the wave. There are experimental
evidences
against it,
Could you elaborate?
I was thinking to quantum erasure experiments. We can make a wave
"collapse", by some measurement, and still make it cohere again, by
erasing the memory of the experience/the result of the experiment.
If observation did collapse or select irreversibly, that could not
make sense.
But it isn't a "measurement" if you can make it cohere again. A
measurement is irreversbile, "erasing" means reversing the process
that, if it were not erased could have become a measurement.
You beg the question. Nothing is irreversible. For practical reason
macroscopic measurement seems irreversible, as we cannot track the
leaking of information, and can no more practically erase it. Quantum
erasure algorithm would not work if measurement were irreversible, and
what such local measurement, where we can still erase the information
and get back to coherence shows that the collapse is not well defined.
Of course Einstein already shows that the collapse cannot be
covariant, and Bohr acknowledged that it cannot be a physical event,
but then why to introduce it to begin with (except the wanting to be
unique).
Quantum computation algorithm also support the relative "physical
reality" of the superposition states.
The collapse is not even an axiom. It is a meta-axiom saying 'don't
listen to the theory when she talk about you or your body. She get
absolutelly crazy, like if we could be ourself in superposiion
states Ha ha ha!".
Without the Born axiom there'd be no way to related QM to actual
observations. According to the Schrodinger equation nothing every
really happens.
Nothing or everything happens, with the SWE or with arithmetic. Then
it is a matter of listening and studying the memory content of the
subsystem inside. They do believe things happen, and they are right.
And the Born axioms can be extracted from SWE + COMP (+ FPI). Only
problem: the logic asks to derive the SWE too, and this works well up
to now.
Bruno
Brent
and there are no experimental evidence of any randomness other
than some FPI, on the branch of a universal wave, or, as we need
with comp,
on arithmetic.
To believe in events without cause or reason is ... pseudo-
religion. It is a
belief in something without any evidences, to introduce
unsolvable problem
on purpose.
This is a strong argument in favor of theories like comp, or at
least
some form of many-worlds. "True randomness" strikes me as an
euphemism
for magic.
I suspect you mean "true physical randomness", or a 3p randomness,
but this still exist mathematically, and experimentally, like when
splitting beams of photons are observed, of course it is only first
person indeterminacy on the wave.
Betting on "true randomness" for an observed reality is like
asserting "don't ask for more explanation".
But from inside we might be confronted with some true randomness,
like with the quantum beams.
Bruno
Telmo.
Bruno
John K Clark
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