On 08 May 2013, at 11:56, Telmo Menezes wrote:

On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

On 07 May 2013, at 20:55, John Clark wrote:

On Mon, May 6, 2013  John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote:

there is no random decay or anything else


There is no way you can deduce that from pure reason and the experimental
evidence strongly indicates that  you are wrong about that.

only things that happen without our - so far - accessed explanation.


And thanks to experiments involving Bell's inequality we know for a fact that if apparently random things happen for a reason they can't be local reasons; for example the reason the coin came up heads right now is because a billion years in the FUTURE a butterfly like creature on a planet in the
Andromeda Galaxy flapped it's wings twice instead of 3 times.



Hi Bruno,

You assume the collapse of the wave. There are experimental evidences
against it,

Could you elaborate?

I was thinking to quantum erasure experiments. We can make a wave "collapse", by some measurement, and still make it cohere again, by erasing the memory of the experience/the result of the experiment. If observation did collapse or select irreversibly, that could not make sense.

Quantum computation algorithm also support the relative "physical reality" of the superposition states.

The collapse is not even an axiom. It is a meta-axiom saying 'don't listen to the theory when she talk about you or your body. She get absolutelly crazy, like if we could be ourself in superposiion states Ha ha ha!".




and there are no experimental evidence of any randomness other
than some FPI, on the branch of a universal wave, or, as we need with comp,
on arithmetic.
To believe in events without cause or reason is ... pseudo- religion. It is a belief in something without any evidences, to introduce unsolvable problem
on purpose.

This is a strong argument in favor of theories like comp, or at least
some form of many-worlds. "True randomness" strikes me as an euphemism
for magic.

I suspect you mean "true physical randomness", or a 3p randomness, but this still exist mathematically, and experimentally, like when splitting beams of photons are observed, of course it is only first person indeterminacy on the wave.

Betting on "true randomness" for an observed reality is like asserting "don't ask for more explanation".

But from inside we might be confronted with some true randomness, like with the quantum beams.

Bruno






Telmo.

Bruno







 John K Clark


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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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