So is physics best understood as a computer program with access to a random oracle? (Coming from 1-indeterminacy.) On Mar 31, 2013 8:13 AM, "Bruno Marchal" <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> > On 31 Mar 2013, at 01:15, Joseph Knight wrote: > > Sorry for the vagueness of my question; I would not count pi as a physical > constant. I would count the empirically determined circumference:diameter > ratio for a circle in our observed curved spacetime as a physical constant. > > The reason I asked is because Bruno has repeatedly claimed that > COMP=>"noncomputability of physics" but I'm wondering what exactly this > would mean in practice. > > > In practice it would mean that some phenomena are not predictible or > computable. Russell and Brent are right, it comes from the FPI (first > person indeterminacy) which introduces "genuine randomness" in the first > person experience. > In fact that randomness might be so great as leading to the "white > rabbits", and with comp it is astonishing that the world around us seems so > much computable. But the redundancy of the UD, and the constraints of > correct self-reference add much structure, and if comp is true, that should > be enough. The non computable sequence will still have computable > distribution, like with QM, when, for example, we send a sheaf of electron > is the 1/sqrt(2)(up + down) on a up/down Stern-Gerlach analyser. From the > first person perspective, this leads to uncomputable sequence of events > (even incompressible strings of up and down), but statistically, with > Avogadro-like numbers of particles, the electronic sheaf will just split in > symmetrical halves, like the big number statistical laws predict. > > It is an open problem if there are non computable constants in nature, as > it is an open problem if some oracle might play a role in the development > of the appearance of physical laws in the UD (or in arithmetic). That seems > unlikely, but who knows? As Brent says, that would be hard to test, but it > might make some sense from theoretical assumption, both in comp-physics, > and in theoretical physics. Note that it is easy to build a non computable > solution to the SWE (something like Ae^ikHt, with k a non computable > number, but it is impossible to test the non computability of such wave in > case they occur. Machines can prove only the individual incompressibility > of a *finite* number of strings. > > Bruno > > > > On Mar 30, 2013 6:53 PM, "Russell Standish" <li...@hpcoders.com.au> wrote: > >> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 04:15:54PM -0700, Joseph Knight wrote: >> > True or False: COMP implies that any fundamental physical constant is >> non >> > computable? >> > >> >> I would say false, unless you can say that pi is _not_ a physical >> constant. Another example that springs to mind is the magnetic moment >> of the neutron which is definitely physical, but maybe not fundamental. >> >> -- >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) >> Principal, High Performance Coders >> Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au >> University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/53ZNGv7qPpo/unsubscribe?hl=en >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/53ZNGv7qPpo/unsubscribe?hl=en > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
