On 10/13/2013 1:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 12 Oct 2013, at 22:53, meekerdb wrote:

On 10/12/2013 10:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 11 Oct 2013, at 03:25, meekerdb wrote:

So there are infinitely many identical universes preceding a measurement. How are these universes distinct from one another? Do they divide into two infinite subsets on a binary measurement, or do infinitely many come into existence in order that some branch-counting measure produces the right proportion? Do you not see any problems with assigning a measure to infinite countable subsets (are there more even numbers that square numbers?).

And why should we prefer this model to simply saying the Born rule derives from a Bayesian epistemic view of QM as argued by, for example, Chris Fuchs?

If you can explain to me how this makes the parallel "experiences", (then), disappearing, please do.

I don't understand the question. What parallel experiences do you refer to? And you're asking why they disappeared?

The question is "how does Fuchs prevent a superposition to be contagious on the 
observer"

I think he takes an instrumentalist view of the wave function - so superpositions are just something that happens in the mathematics.






When I read Fuchs I thought this: Comp suggest a compromise: yes the "quantum wave" describes only psychological states, but they concern still a *many* dreams/worlds/physical-realities, including the many self-multiplication.

There is no "many" in Fuchs interpretation, there is only the personal subjective probabilities of contemplated futures.

I notice the plural of "futures". Are those not "many"?

Sure, but they are contemplated, not reified.

I know Fuchs criticize Everett, but I don't see how he makes the superposition disappearing. he only makes them psychological, which is not a problem for me. there are still "many".


Yes, that's why I said I think his approach is consistent with yours. I think Fuchs view of QM is similar to what William S. Cooper calls for at the end of his book "The Evolution of Reason" - a probabilistic extension of logic. This is essentially the view he defends at length in "Interview with a Quantum Bayesian", arXiv:1207.2141v1






It is still Everett wave as seen from inside.

We just don't know if the dreams defined an unique (multiversal) physical reality. Neither in Everett +GR, nor in comp.

Bayesian epistemic view is no problem, but you have to define what is the knower, the observer, etc. If not, it falls into a cosmic form of solipsism, and it can generate some strong "don't ask" imperative.

You assume that if others are not explained they must be rejected.

I just ask for an explanation of the terms that they introduce.


I think he takes the observer as primitive and undefined (and I think you do 
the same).



Physicists, like Fuchs, and unlike philosophers, are generally comfortable with not explaining everything.

Me too. but he has still to explain the terms that he is using.

What's your explanation for the existence of persons? So far what I've heard is that it's an inside view of arithmetic - which I don't find very enlightening. Fuchs, correctly I think, says an 'interpretation' of a theory, the story that goes along with the mathematics, is important insofar as it gives you insight into how to apply the mathematics and to extend your theories. He is critical of Everett's MWI for not doing that, or at least not doing it well.

Brent


Bruno




Brent
"I mistrust all systematizers and avoid them. The will to a system is a lack of 
integrity."
    --- Fredrick Nietzsche, "Twilight of the Idols"

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/>



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3614/6742 - Release Date: 10/11/13

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

Reply via email to