On 15 Oct 2013, at 13:21, Quentin Anciaux wrote:

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2013/10/15 Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> Date: Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 6:54 AM Subject: Re: The probability problem in Everettian quantum mechanics To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 2013/10/15 Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com>Bruno: On the contrary: I assume only that my brain (or generalizedbrain) is computable, then I show that basically all the rest isnot. In everything, or just in arithmetic, the computable is rareand exceptional.Richard: Wow. This contradicts everything I have ever though Brunowas claiming. How does anything exist if it is not computed by "the"or "a" machine? And I thought the generalized brain did thecomputations, not that it was only computed. How does Bruno showthat "all the rest" which presumably includes energy and matter isnot computed. Bruno is constantly confusing me.Energy and matter (and the universe whatever it is), is composed bythe sum of the infinity of computations going through your state....as it is defined by an infinity of computations (and not one), it isnot "computed".A piece of matter (or you fwiw) below the substitution level is aninfinity of computations.QuentinNo I'm saying, that matter/you is not *a* computation, but theinfinite set of computations going through your current state (atevery state, an infinity of computations diverge, but there is stillan infinity going through that state and it's for every state).

`Yes. It generalizes what Everett did on the universal quantum wave, on`

`the whole arithmetical truth (which contains the whole computer`

`science theoretical truth). If QM is correct, the SWE is redundant,`

`and a consequence of comp. Physics is one aspect of arithmetic seen by`

`its internal creatures (the universal or not numbers). We can`

`concretely extract physics from the interview of the chatty rich one`

`(the LĂ¶bian numbers).`

Bruno

QuentinYou seem to be saying that the infinity of computations are notcomputed. That does not make sense.RichardOn Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>wrote:On 14 Oct 2013, at 21:30, meekerdb wrote:On 10/14/2013 1:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 13 Oct 2013, at 22:11, meekerdb wrote:On 10/13/2013 1:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 12 Oct 2013, at 22:53, meekerdb wrote:On 10/12/2013 10:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 11 Oct 2013, at 03:25, meekerdb wrote:So there are infinitely many identical universes preceding ameasurement. How are these universes distinct from oneanother? Do they divide into two infinite subsets on abinary measurement, or do infinitely many come into existencein order that some branch-counting measure produces the rightproportion? Do you not see any problems with assigning ameasure to infinite countable subsets (are there more evennumbers that square numbers?).And why should we prefer this model to simply saying the Bornrule derives from a Bayesian epistemic view of QM as arguedby, for example, Chris Fuchs?If you can explain to me how this makes the parallel"experiences", (then), disappearing, please do.I don't understand the question. What parallel experiences doyou refer to? And you're asking why they disappeared?The question is "how does Fuchs prevent a superposition to becontagious on the observer"I think he takes an instrumentalist view of the wave function -so superpositions are just something that happens in themathematics.But then I don't see how this could fit with even just the onephoton interference in the two slits experiment.?? The math predicts probabilities of events, including where asingle photon will land in a Young's slit experiment - nosuperposition of observer required.But it illustrates that superposition is physical/real, not purelymathematical. Then linearity expands it to us.When I read Fuchs I thought this: Comp suggest a compromise:yes the "quantum wave" describes only psychological states,but they concern still a *many* dreams/worlds/physical-realities, including the many self-multiplication.There is no "many" in Fuchs interpretation, there is only thepersonal subjective probabilities of contemplated futures.I notice the plural of "futures". Are those not "many"?Sure, but they are contemplated, not reified.OK. But apparently object of contemplation can interfere with thereal, which is a bit weird to me.The 'interference' is a calculational event 'between' possiblefutures. Or even the result of considering all possible paths.That leads to instrumentalism. That is "don"t ask, don't try tounderstand or get a bigger picture".I know Fuchs criticize Everett, but I don't see how he makes thesuperposition disappearing. he only makes them psychological,which is not a problem for me. there are still "many".Yes, that's why I said I think his approach is consistent withyours. I think Fuchs view of QM is similar to what William S.Cooper calls for at the end of his book "The Evolution of Reason"- a probabilistic extension of logic. This is essentially theview he defends at length in "Interview with a Quantum Bayesian",arXiv:1207.2141v1OK.It is still Everett wave as seen from inside.We just don't know if the dreams defined an unique(multiversal) physical reality. Neither in Everett +GR, nor incomp.Bayesian epistemic view is no problem, but you have to definewhat is the knower, the observer, etc. If not, it falls into acosmic form of solipsism, and it can generate some strong"don't ask" imperative.You assume that if others are not explained they must berejected.I just ask for an explanation of the terms that they introduce.I think he takes the observer as primitive and undefined (and Ithink you do the same).What? Not at all. the observer is defined by its set of beliefs,itself define by a relative universal numbers.Fuchs defines 'the observer' as the one who bets on the outcome ofhis actions.Comp has a pretty well defined notion of observer, with itsoctalist points of view, and an whole theology including hisphysics, etc.Physicists, like Fuchs, and unlike philosophers, are generallycomfortable with not explaining everything.Me too. but he has still to explain the terms that he is using.What's your explanation for the existence of persons? So farwhat I've heard is that it's an inside view of arithmetic - whichI don't find very enlightening.What do you miss in the UDA?As I understand it the UD computes everything computable and it'sonly your inference that observers (and the rest of the multiverse)*must be in there somewhere* because you've assumed that everythingis computable.On the contrary: I assume only that my brain (or generalized brain)is computable, then I show that basically all the rest is not. Ineverything, or just in arithmetic, the computable is rare andexceptional.Fuchs, correctly I think, says an 'interpretation' of a theory,the story that goes along with the mathematics, is importantinsofar as it gives you insight into how to apply the mathematicsand to extend your theories. He is critical of Everett's MWI fornot doing that, or at least not doing it well.Well, perhaps Fuchs is a bit out of topic, once you agree that itis only Everett in a psychological version.It's kinda funny to see "only...psychological" from a guy who wantsto show that everything is a shared dream.I said that just to say that comp is both on Fuchs' side, and onEverett's side.That is close to comp. But comp leads, by UDA, that the theory ofeveruthing is just elementary arithmetic (or Turing equivalent,like colmbinatirs, ...). Then everything is defined in a veryprecise way in that theory.Is it? What's an electron then? What's John K. Clark? I don'tsee that these things are defined *in that theory* at all.?This is a consequence of already the step seven. Of course aquestion like "what is an electron" remains an open problem, but weknow the shape of the answer: an electron is a relatively stableinformation pattern in the FPI of all universal numbers.BrunoBrentAnd this explains both 100% matter and 99,999... % ofconsciousness. The explanation might be false, of course, but istestable.BrunoBrentBrunoBrent"I mistrust all systematizers and avoid them. The will to asystem is a lack of integrity."--- Fredrick Nietzsche, "Twilight of the Idols" --You received this message because you are subscribed to theGoogle Groups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails fromit, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ No virus found in this message. 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