Not even on the deep net?

On 6 November 2013 16:15, Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com> wrote:

> According to the Wired article, deep net is the tor system
> invented or developed by the govt to be impenetrable
> hence NSA's comment that "Tor sucks".
>
> You can read the Wired article here:
> http://www.wired.com/magazine/
> but the last issue is not on the net yet.
> Richard
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Richard,
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:34 PM, Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > The so-called Deep Net is according to this last issue of Wired is
>> > many times bigger than the Internet we all know
>> > and apparently almost impenetrable.
>> > Perhaps we will all switch
>> > to the Deep Net
>> > http://www.rogerdavies.com/2011/06/dark-internet/
>>
>> Deep net is usually just the name given to the stuff that is not
>> crawlable by search engines. So if you have some facebook profile with
>> things that are private just to your friends, this is already part of
>> the deep net. Online banking is part of the deep net, also the web
>> interface to your emails and so on.
>>
>> Then there are systems build on top of the internet protocols to
>> provide strong anonymity and strong point to point encryption. We
>> could use this kind of system to exchange private messages, but we can
>> also use it in the following way: I create a web page and a lot of
>> people read it. Nobody can learn that I am the author of the page and
>> I cannot learn the identity of people who visit it. This can even be
>> resilient to censorship, because the page I create can be anonymously
>> spread through nodes on the net and there is no single point where it
>> can be deleted, and no way to intercept my communications and
>> determine what to censor.
>>
>> The most well know system is Tor. A NSA slide contains the comment
>> "Tor sucks", so we can assume they are doing something right. There
>> are signs that the NSA has been attempting to compromise the Tor
>> network, but they don't appear to have been successful. They do
>> aggressively store all strongly encrypted data, in the hopes that they
>> can decrypt it later with more computational power of some
>> breakthrough in cryptography.
>>
>> You can try Tor very easily by installing the Tor browser:
>>
>> https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en
>>
>> Telmo.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 4:26 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> In the meantime, the corporates are doing their best to enslave world
>> via
>> >> the internet...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/298-185/20253-focus-were-about-to-lose-net-neutrality-and-the-internet-as-we-know-it
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 6 November 2013 02:24, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy
>> >>> <multiplecit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> > Regarding government totalitarianism in Nazi terms: Carl Schmitt
>> >>> > reasoned
>> >>> > that corporations have the potential to become "states". If the
>> >>> > government
>> >>> > doesn't keep their authority in check, they will enslave people and
>> >>> > government through market influence.
>> >>>
>> >>> I have some hope that technology will soon enable a new type of
>> >>> corporation that isn't really a power structure. It has been suggested
>> >>> that BitCoin is, in fact, already such a thing. BitCoin is out of the
>> >>> control of its creators, while at the same time having rewarded them
>> >>> for their invention. And it's growing. This could be extended to all
>> >>> things. For example, a decentralised network could connect patients
>> >>> and health care providers in a free market of 1-to1 interactions,
>> >>> propagate trust and reputation and so on. It could even allow for the
>> >>> petition and providing of pro-bono work. The beauty of this sort of
>> >>> thing is that it self-regulates: there's no CEO, no management, no
>> >>> power struggles.
>> >>>
>> >>> > We're perhaps still running "dominance over reason" pretty much
>> >>> > everywhere
>> >>> > in the traditional colonial style... A few months ago the
>> similarity of
>> >>> > foundations and of legal justifications for exceptional powers
>> ("state
>> >>> > of
>> >>> > emergency" Patriot, NDAA, secret Camps, limitless surveillance etc.)
>> >>> > between
>> >>> > international politics to political philosophy driving Nazi Germany
>> >>> > struck
>> >>> > me.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Carl Schmitt focused a lot of this for the Nazis in his writings.
>> Now,
>> >>> > I am
>> >>> > not equating what is going on today with Germany then; that would be
>> >>> > too
>> >>> > quick and simplistic. Even if Wikipedia cannot reflect the nuances
>> of
>> >>> > his
>> >>> > writing in German, it's still worth checking out his "work" section
>> >>> > summary
>> >>> > on Wikipedia and to ask ourselves: how much more civilized have we
>> >>> > become
>> >>> > since then? To what extent, have we really turned a page on this
>> >>> > "dominance
>> >>> > model of hierarchical politics" that the Nazis developed into the
>> 20th
>> >>> > century; and re-branded that as "globalized freedom striving"?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schmitt
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I'm not so sure we completely got rid of Nazi philosophy. I wonder
>> if
>> >>> > John
>> >>> > Clark would consider this a philosophical contribution to the 20th
>> >>> > century,
>> >>> > lol! This philosophy does seem to have "real consequences felt by
>> >>> > everybody". PGC
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 7:21 AM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On 5 November 2013 17:11, <spudboy...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> I would put marxism and fascism close together and not polar
>> >>> >>> opposites.
>> >>> >>> Because Marxists claim that they are for the proles does not
>> really
>> >>> >>> mean
>> >>> >>> that they are. It just means that they try to BS people with this
>> >>> >>> claim. In
>> >>> >>> fact, there are no, non mixed economies anymore, in the us, china,
>> >>> >>> and
>> >>> >>> russia. Its all a two classsystem of rule by party leaders, and
>> their
>> >>> >>> pet
>> >>> >>> billionaires. Cronyism. Marxism killed 40 million people  in
>> China,
>> >>> >>> during
>> >>> >>> the great leap forwards. It was never deliberate, but doing
>> practices
>> >>> >>> that
>> >>> >>> ruined crop growth, by following party eddicts.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >> You're conflating the works of Karl Marx with people who paid lip
>> >>> >> service
>> >>> >> to them. Do you uncritically believe that (say) America has a free
>> >>> >> market
>> >>> >> economy because they say so?
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> --
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