2013/11/12 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> > > On 12 Nov 2013, at 11:54, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > > > "So what would you suggest as a replacement? The scientific method is, to > paraphrase Winston Churchill on democracy, the worst system we have apart > from all the others we've tried." > > Following your analogy. when the the media, and the politicians > of majority parties form a coalition to defend their own interests, then > you can not have access to the information. You are governed by a > collection of liars and simulators. There is no democracy. > > When the science and their media is dominated by a single coalition united > in the mutual interest to increase their budget and they have the > communication means of internet to coordinate in this effort, then there is > no science. > > I propose the separation of science and state. > > > Yes. And that is what is done normally in a democracy. When science is not > separated from politics, you get pseudo-science at the top. In fact you get > a religious state. Politicians can consult experts, but have to be careful > not taking them too much seriously. > > Now, about climate, my opinion, since always, is that we have accessed to > only one planet, at least for some time, and so we must avoid any > irreversible actions *when* possible. > > Henry Ford in the early 1900 explained already that by using hemp in place > of steel and oil to make car, we would allow a sustainable economy, while > by using oil, we create a larger and larger imbalance. Given the Hemp > alternative, we should not have even begun to use oil, or in a more > reasonable proportion, and should have continue with Hemp, as we have done > the preceding centuries. Of course the oil barons thought differently, and > invented the myth that Hemp (cannabis) is a dangerous plant. A myth which > has been debunked since the start. > > Brent advocates democracy, and I go with him on this. But if their is a > climate change, it might be due to the failure of democracy to prevent big > corporatist lies. > > Bruno > > > The planet saver crusade evoke in my mind the country savers of the past that said the same to save their country, and in the process, gain power and rob the people. Save the planet from your preferred dirt paranoia with your own money, Not mine. I have my own dirt to attend.
You ignore basic facts of production on biocombustibles and biomaterials. The production of biocombustibles instead of food has been proved that lead to disaster. The obsessed with the idea that "there are only a limited X for Y" . Sooner or later reach their logical conclussion: some Y must be made redundant. and these Y are people. And the fact is that there are plenty of energy and materials everywhere. The only lacking resource is the inteligence and ingenuity of more people to learn to use them. > > > 2013/11/12 Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com> > >> >> >> >> 2013/11/12 LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> >> >>> On 12 November 2013 14:04, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Every science whose conclusions have effects in politics has a high >>>> risk of being manipulated. In the URSS and here. From Anthropology to long >>>> term Meteorology to everything in the middle. The one that does not realize >>>> that is poor fool who does not know how the world works and has replaced >>>> with all his innocent stupidity the fairy tales of the past with the fairy >>>> tales of supposed sciences. >>>> >>> >>> Yes of course. >>> >>>> >>>> If you read the mails of the East Anglia Climategate scandal, One of >>>> the main concern of the Warmists were about to keep in control over the >>>> peer reviewing mechanism of the main scientific magazines Long interchanges >>>> of mails were devoted to talk about stablishing barriers in the peer >>>> reviewed magazines by perverting the PR mechanisms. >>>> >>>> The fact is that peer reviewing is not a guaranty, on the contraty. It >>>> acts as an ideological filter rather than as a quality filter in every >>>> discipline in which politics and scientists benefit from mutual cooperation >>>> by interchanging money for ideological ammunition. >>>> >>> >>> So what would you suggest as a replacement? The scientific method is, to >>> paraphrase Winston Churchill on democracy, the worst system we have apart >>> from all the others we've tried. >>> >>> You might like to consider that hurricanes and bush fires and rising >>> seas and melting glaciers can't be influenced by political opinion, and it >>> would take a huge effort to generate the evidence coming in from all over >>> the world as part of some vast conspiracy. We're forever hearing about the >>> wildest storms, the highest (and lowest) temperatures on record, the >>> greatest floods and droughts and so on. >>> >>> Is it just possible that the overwhelming mountain of evidence >>> indicates, maybe, something is really going on? >>> >>> (And by the way, supposing there is no global warming and we go ahead >>> and develop sustainable power sources for no reason whatsoever before the >>> oil runs out - won't that just be awful?) >>> >> >> You better read the mails of the two climategate scandal and conform a >> better opinion about the matter than with the bush fires and hurricanes >> that the sanitary towell sellers tell you in your dumb box. You can see how >> a conspiracy of interests push truth away and replace it with half truths. >> That is happening since the human learn to talk and socialize. When the >> whole science is perverted because all the laboratories are a single >> virtual laboratory, all the model simulations talk together to to adjust >> their parameters to reach the same conclussions (up to the decimal level) . >> When the measures of tree growth is made by hungry russians that are >> ansious to get his money and depend on western "scientists" that need their >> next year grant from politicians that want to see reasons for giving them >> millions of dollars, Then there is nothing that may resemble the scientific >> method. It is just bare humans doing whathever they can for their primary >> concerns: their famillies, their personal careers and their ambitions as >> ever in History. But in some other cases is even more: international crime >> >> -- >>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Alberto. >> > > > > -- > Alberto. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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