On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 1:23 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

> On 11/23/2013 3:42 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
>> On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 5:00 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> On 11/22/2013 5:38 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
>>> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 7:51 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> On 11/21/2013 1:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>> On 20 Nov 2013, at 22:20, Richard Ruquist wrote:
>>> Chief Supreme Court Justice Marshall usurped the Constitution
>>> when he maintained that the Supreme Court had the right to rule
>>> laws made by Congress and signed by the President unconstitutional.
>>> As a result the USA is essentially ruled by the Supreme Court
>>>   There is no provision in the US Constitution for this right.
>>> Congress instead has the right to regulate the Supreme Court,
>>> The supreme court has judged the NDAA 2012 anti-constitutional. But
>>> apparently this has changed nothing. I don't find information on this.
>>> Some
>>> sites on this  have just disappeared.
>>> It changed nothing because it didn't happen.  First, the NDAA authorizes
>>> the
>>> defense budget and other things.  The Supremes would not have found it
>>> "anti-constitutional".  The controversial provision you may be thinking
>>> of
>>> was clause that affirmed the Presidents power to detain people without
>>> trial
>>> as set out in the 2001 resolution following the 9/11 attack.  The ACLU
>>> has
>>> challenged this provision and a case was brought in 2012, Hedge v Obama.
>>>  A
>>> district court ruled that the indefinite detention provision was
>>> unconstitutional and gave an injunction against its use.  This went up
>>> through the layers of appeals courts.  The Supreme Court threw out the
>>> injunction on the grounds that the plaintiffs lacked legal standing to
>>> bring
>>> the case - and so in effect upheld the law without actually ruling on
>>> whether or not it is constitutional.
>>> This is an aspect of U.S. law inherited from English law, that only
>>> persons
>>> who are actually harmed by a law can challenge it in court.  More modern
>>> democracies, seeing the importance of the U.S. Supreme Court in being
>>> able
>>> to nullify unconstitutional laws, have explicitly provided for court
>>> review
>>> of laws without there having to be a plaintiff and a case.
>>> Brent,
>>> I would say you're making an implicit extraordinary claim here. This
>>> claim being that the reason why certain fundamental rights (like the
>>> right to a trial) are not being is bureaucratic impediment, as opposed
>>> to these impediments being created for the purpose of preventing the
>>> application of said rights in practice.
>>> ?? Left out some words?
>> Only one, I think, but it ruined the paragraph. Sorry.
>> "...certain fundamental rights are not being upheld is bureaucratic
>> impediment,..."
>>  I argue that this claim is extraordinary for the following reasons:
>>> - The President signed the NDAA. He also swore to defend the
>>> constitution and he's supposed to be a constitutional expert, so it is
>>> not likely that he is not aware that citizens have a fundamental right
>>> to a trial.
>>> The controversial clause of the NDAA only applies to citizens who have
>>> taken
>>> up arms or aided organizations
>> Of course "aiding" said organizations can be defined as anything that
>> goes against the government's wishes. Especially when we have to take
>> the Government's word on even the existence of such organisations.
> You are assuming the government (prosecutors) get to redefine words so
> that "aiding" can mean anything.  But once you assume that, then no law has
> any meaning.  Anyway you are wrong.  Judges and juries and even military
> tribunals are not all stupid or tools of despotic Presidents or lackeys of
> corporatism.  You so readily make those assumptions implicitly; but you
> don't see that if true then you are already living in 1984.  Do you really
> think this is dystopia?  Are you afraid the CIA will have you assassinated
> for you opinions?

They've already assassinated American citizens (suspected not convicted of
any crime) for essentially what amounted to speech.  A few weeks later they
assassinated his 16 year old son, also a US citizen, apparently for no
other crime than having had al-Awlaki as a father.  See:


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