# Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

```Dear LirZ,
```
```
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:52 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 17 December 2013 16:22, Stephen Paul King
> <stephe...@provensecure.com>wrote:
>
>> Dear LizR,
>>
>>   That is exactly the point that I wanted to make: 'There couldn't be an
>> observer in such a universe, it's far too simple." There could not be one
>> wherefore "he could deduce the existence of 17 theoretically, and work
>> out its properties" is impossible: probability zero.
>>
>
> I can't see the significance of this argument. If we take a large enough
> number, say 10^80, that observers *can *exist, we can then ask whether
> such observers could work out the properties of numbers greater than 10^80.
> Since we appear to be in such a universe, the answer is yes.
>

Are we really "working it out" or are we merely doing some approximation
that is cut off far below the 10^80 limit? So, no!

> And we can also work out the properties of a universe containing 16
> objects.
>

You just pointed out that there cannot be observers in the 16 object
universe, so why are you arguing as if they could exist in such? This is a
typical mistake that we make: assuming that there can exist an observer of
a universe that does not allow the existence of such an observer in that
particular universe. To do such is a fallacy!

> So it appears that observers in a universe which allows observers to exist
> can work out the properties of universes containing any number of objects.
> (Or, for short, they can do maths,)
>

Wrong, there is no actual "working it all the way out". There is, OTOH,
lots of shortcuts and cheating by assuming that some thing is true without
actually working the proof by demonstration.

>
>>   We could never experience such and thus it follows that, to us, such a
>> universe does not exist. Now, to follow the chain of reasoning, consider
>> the collection of universes that are such that 17 is not prime is true in
>> that collection. Could "we" experience anything like those universes?
>>
>
> I can't see any chain of reasoning.
>

Does it make more sense now?

>
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Kindest Regards,

Stephen Paul King

Senior Researcher

Mobile: (864) 567-3099

stephe...@provensecure.com

http://www.provensecure.us/

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