# Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

```No, your making the mistake of identifying a representation of a thing with
the thing. The symbol 10^80 does not have 10^80 components, so to act as it
is does...```
```

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:29 AM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Stephen Paul King <
> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear LirZ,
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:52 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 17 December 2013 16:22, Stephen Paul King <stephe...@provensecure.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear LizR,
>>>>
>>>>   That is exactly the point that I wanted to make: 'There couldn't be
>>>> an observer in such a universe, it's far too simple." There could not be
>>>> one wherefore "he could deduce the existence of 17 theoretically, and
>>>> work out its properties" is impossible: probability zero.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I can't see the significance of this argument. If we take a large enough
>>> number, say 10^80, that observers *can *exist, we can then ask whether
>>> such observers could work out the properties of numbers greater than 10^80.
>>> Since we appear to be in such a universe, the answer is yes.
>>>
>>
>> Are we really "working it out" or are we merely doing some approximation
>> that is cut off far below the 10^80 limit? So, no!
>>
>>
> It is fully possible to represent a number 10^80 on a computer.  It would
> take only a few 10s of bytes of memory.  This e-mail itself takes more
> space up than 10^80; there are far more than 10^80 ways to write an e-mail.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> And we can also work out the properties of a universe containing 16
>>> objects.
>>>
>>
>> You just pointed out that there cannot be observers in the 16 object
>> universe, so why are you arguing as if they could exist in such? This is a
>> typical mistake that we make: assuming that there can exist an observer of
>> a universe that does not allow the existence of such an observer in that
>> particular universe. To do such is a fallacy!
>>
>
>
> Like the tree falling in the woods, Stephen believes a number can only be
> prime if it is written down on a piece of paper and gazed upon by a
> mathematician. To me, this seems more fallacious than the idea that a
> number is prime or not depending on whether or not someone is looking at it.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> So it appears that observers in a universe which allows observers to
>>> exist can work out the properties of universes containing any number of
>>> objects. (Or, for short, they can do maths,)
>>>
>>
>> Wrong, there is no actual "working it all the way out". There is, OTOH,
>> lots of shortcuts and cheating by assuming that some thing is true without
>> actually working the proof by demonstration.
>>
>
> As of today, the largest known prime is over 17 million decimal digits
> long.  This number, by the way, is far larger than the number of Planck
> volumes that could fit in the Hubble volume, but we have still discerned
> its properties.  You doubt its properties are really true because there
> aren't this many things to count in our universe?  Is 17 not prime because
> slugs cannot comprehend the concept?
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>>>   We could never experience such and thus it follows that, to us, such
>>>> a universe does not exist. Now, to follow the chain of reasoning, consider
>>>> the collection of universes that are such that 17 is not prime is true in
>>>> that collection. Could "we" experience anything like those universes?
>>>>
>>>
> There may be many universes in which certain things cannot be proved, but
> we shouldn't take that to mean those those things are not true.
>
> Jason
>
>
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--

Kindest Regards,

Stephen Paul King

Senior Researcher

Mobile: (864) 567-3099

stephe...@provensecure.com

http://www.provensecure.us/

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