On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:06 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

>  On 12/16/2013 10:02 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Stephen Paul King <
> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote:
>>  Yes, but why are you being anthropocentric?
>  I thought that was your position, or at least (observer-centric), in
> that numbers only have properties when observed/checked/computed by some
> entity somewhere.
>>  If there can exist a physical process that is a bisimulation of the
>> computation of the test for primeness, then the primeness is true.
>> Otherwise, we are merely guessing, at best.
>  When we check the primaility of some number N, we may not know whether
> or not it is prime.  However, eventually we run the computation and find
> out either it was, or it wasn't.
>  My question to you is when was it determined that N was or was not
> prime?  Any time we re-check the calculation we get the same result.
> Presumably even causally isolated observers will also get the same result.
> If humans get wiped out and cuttlefish take over the world and build
> computers, and they check to see if N, is prime is it possible for them to
> get a different result?
>  My contention is that it is not possible to get a different result, that
> N was always prime, or it was always not prime, and it would be prime (or
> not prime) even if we lacked the means or inclination to check it.
> That's fine.  But it's a leap to go from the truth value of 17 is prime,
> to 17 exists.  That's what I mean by mathematicians assuming that
> "satisfying a predicate" = "exists".
All you need are truth values.  If it is true that the recursive function
containing an emulation of the wave function of the Hubble volume contains
a self-aware process known as Brent which believes he has read an e-mail
from Jason, then it is true that the aforementioned Brent believes he has
read an e-mail from Jason.  We don't need to add some additional "exists"
property on top of it, it adds nothing.


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