On 29 Dec 2013, at 14:52, Edgar L. Owen wrote:

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Bruno,Glad we agree that decoherence falsifies collapse. That's a goodstart!But decoherence also falsifies MW.

`Non collapse = many-worlds, to me. If I make a quantum choice, by QM,`

`I will put myself in a superposition and execute the two alternative`

`of the experience. If one of the two terms disappears, there is`

`collapse.`

First of all you have to understand what a wavefunction is. It's nota physical object.

`QM is the assumption that particles and fields follows some wave`

`equation. If you doubt that the physical reality is described by the`

`wave, you doubt QM. And this has nothing to do with the interpretation`

`of QM.`

It's a description of a physical object in human math.

You confuse the theories and what the theory are intended for.

Basically in QM its formulated as the 'answer' to a question thatcan be asked about a physical object.

`That's like defining an atom by the set of experimental set up capable`

`of analysing it.`

`Then you refer all the times to a reality, and I still don't know what`

`you assume.`

Second, properly understood, there are no 'branches' to awavefunction.

`Relatively to some observable, there are. What is your semantic of a`

`quantum decision?`

The correct interpretation of a wavefunction is not a description ofa physical object (electron) smeared out in a fixed pre-existingbackground space common to all events, it's a description of howspace can dimensionally emerge if that particle decoheres with someother particle, in other words it's the range of possibilities forthe dimensional relationship that would occur if it interacted withanother particle's wavefunction.

`That's not so bad way to see the things, perhaps. It looks like`

`explaining gravity through quantum entanglements. I am OK with this.`

`In physics (which I don't assume any theory, as a constraints in the`

`mind-body problem).`

In no way this makes alternate realities in oblivion.

Thus all this occurs not in physical space, but in logicalcomputational space. It is only when wavefunctions actuallyinterfere and decohere with each other that actual dimensionalrelationships arise, and therefore a point in a dimensional space iscreated. This is how dimensional spaces emerge piecewise fromquantum decoherence events.So you do get many individual spacetime fragments emerging out oflogical computational space by this process, but they are notseparate universes, because they in turn continually merge viacommon events that connect and align them. The result of googles ofthese processes is the simulacrum of classical spacetime. It is theorigin of physicality from computational space.That's the way it works.... And this model also unifies GR and QMand resolves all quantum 'paradox' at the same time, as well asexplaining the source of quantum randomness, so it's an excellentmodel. You really need to understand it.Everett had an insight but since he didn't understand how spacetimeemerges from, is actually created by, quantum events incomputational information space, he followed it off into never neverland...

What are your assumptions, and what is your equation or theorem? Bruno

Edgar On Sunday, December 29, 2013 8:31:38 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Dec 2013, at 19:30, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > Not at all. Decoherence falsifies collapse. ? That is my point. Decoherence falsifies collapse. Exactly. > Decoherence falsifies many worlds.Decoherence is just the contagion of superposed states to theobserver/environment. It vindicates the many-worlds. Many-worlds is not an interpretation, but an easy consequence of the linearity of the wave, and the linearity of the tensor product. That is so true, than when the founders got this, they introduces a new axiom for the measurement which basically says that quantum mechanics is wrong for the observer, to avoid the spreading of the superposition. But that is ad hoc, and contradict the idea that physicists obeys to physical laws. > With decoherence everything is a wavefunction and those wave > functions just keep on going and interacting in this single world. The waves don't interact, and the superposition, by linearity, never disappeared, and spread at light speed. QM-without-collapse = MW. Explain me with only QM how a branch of the wave could ever disappear. Then with comp, arithmetic contains all dreams, and QM becomes the digital seen from a first person plural points of view. the math confirms this up to now. This makes "mono-universe" still less plausible. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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