Something to think about:
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Liz R <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, 28 December 2013 06:18:26 UTC+13, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
>> Many worlds is probably the most outlandishly improbable theory of all
>> time, and should have been laughed out of existence as soon as it was
>> proposed. Do
> Fortunately, science is not decided on what seems probable to humans, or
> we would never have realised that there is anything except the Earth and
> some lights in the sky. The MWI is very far from the most outlandishly
> improbable theory of all time, I can name a dozen ontological theories that
> are more outlandish without even asking WIkipedia, such as the idea that
> the world was created by the shenannigans of various gods.
> you actually understand what it says or implies? Basically that every
>> quantum event that ever occured in the history of the universe spawns an
>> entire new universe of all its possible outcomes and every event in every
>> one of those new universes does the same. This immediately exponentially
>> escalates in the first few minutes of the universe into uncountable new
>> universes and has been expanding exponentially ever since over 14.7 billion
>> years! Just try to calculate the
> The MWI is a straight interpretation of our best theory of matter - an
> interpretation that removes any extra assumptions (wave function collapse,
> pilot waves, wave-particle duality etc). It is simply what the relevant
> equations say, converted without interpretation to human language (if one
> leaves aside the actual phrase "many worlds", which is misleading). The
> equations imply that all possible outcomes occur for a given quantum event,
> or to be exact that the entities we regard as particles are in fact waves,
> capable of interfering with themselves, but only detectable (I suppose
> "entanglable" would be a better word) by a process of localisation that is,
> I'm told, neatly explained by decoherence. This implies that the universal
> wavefunction is constantly spreading and differentiating. This is generally
> characterised as "parallel universes coming into existence" but that isn't
> a completely accurate description (and in any case it is quite possible
> that space and time are emergent properties of the universal wavefunction).
>> number of new universe that now exist. It's larger than the largest
>> number that could ever be imagined or even written down. There is not
>> enough paper in the universe, or enough computer memory in the entire
>> universe to even express a number this large! Doesn't anyone ever use
>> common sense and think through these things to see how stupid they are? And
>> it violates all sorts of conservations since energy eg. is multiplied
>> exponentially beyond counting. Geeez, it would be impossible to come up
>> with something dumber, especially when it is completely clear that
>> decoherence theory falsifies it conclusively.
> If that was a correct description of the MWI, you might have a point, but
> it isn't. Oddly enough clever people *have* thought about this, some of
> them on this very list. Have you read "The Fabric of Reality" by David
> Deutsch? That's what Americans would call "MWI 101" or "The MWI for
> dummies". If you have, you will know that the MWI posits a continuum of
> "worlds" which can only ever differentiate, not "split" or "branch" or any
> of the other common misconceptions. The fact that the universe can generate
> greater and greater detail indefinitely (or possibly only to certain
> physical limits, like the Bekenstein bound) is no more surprising than the
> fact that in GR a finite universe can expand to infinite size (under
> certain conditions), or that the centre of a black hole (according to GR)
> is a singularity of infinite density. These are all properties of the
> continuum, a mathematical object that may or may not describe space-time
> (if it doesn't, it does so to very high precision, apparently many orders
> of magnitude smaller than the Planck length). The idea that the MWI
> violates the conservation of energy was laid to rest a long time ago. A
> simple example is a quantum computer factoring a 500 bit number. The
> equations of QM say that this is physically possible, even if we have
> trouble doing it in practice - it requires 500 qubits to be suitably
> prepared and then shaken down somehow (with Shor's algorithm, I think) to
> obtain the result. QM says this happens by generating a superposition of 2
> to the power of 500 quantum states, which according to my trusty calculator
> is quite a lot. These superpositions are in fact capable of decohering into
> 2^500 possible states, although Shor's algo or whatever ensures that
> 99.999...% of these give the right answer. The question is, how or where do
> all these states exist? QM says they all exist right here, in "our
> universe" (which the MWI claims is a convenient fiction, of course) - but
> how can 2^500 states exist at the same time for the same qubits (which are
> normally atoms, but could in theory be photons, electrons, etc) ? Where is
> the calculation performed? This is a massive parallel computation, carried
> out inside an object that could in theory be the size of a sugar cube. If
> it was carried out using the computational resources of our universe, it
> would need a *lot* of Hubble spheres - around 10^70 of them - to supply
> the resources.
> So is QM wrong? Is a quantum computer impossible, or impossible beyond
> some cutoff well below 2^500 qubits? If not, that qc contains 2^500
> mini-parallel-universes. But if you accept that, what happens when you
> decohere them? Do you 2^500 slightly larger parallel universes, say
> including the scientist who does the measurement? Or if not, why not? The
> onus is on rival theories to explain where the cutoff occurs, and why.
> If for some reason you *haven't* read FOR, go away and do so. Then you
> will be in a position to discuss this topic without relying on a mistaken
> interpretation of the MWI.
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Stephen Paul King
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