Something to think about: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131205142218.htm#!

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On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Liz R <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Saturday, 28 December 2013 06:18:26 UTC+13, Edgar L. Owen wrote: >> >> >> Many worlds is probably the most outlandishly improbable theory of all >> time, and should have been laughed out of existence as soon as it was >> proposed. Do >> > > Fortunately, science is not decided on what seems probable to humans, or > we would never have realised that there is anything except the Earth and > some lights in the sky. The MWI is very far from the most outlandishly > improbable theory of all time, I can name a dozen ontological theories that > are more outlandish without even asking WIkipedia, such as the idea that > the world was created by the shenannigans of various gods. > > you actually understand what it says or implies? Basically that every >> quantum event that ever occured in the history of the universe spawns an >> entire new universe of all its possible outcomes and every event in every >> one of those new universes does the same. This immediately exponentially >> escalates in the first few minutes of the universe into uncountable new >> universes and has been expanding exponentially ever since over 14.7 billion >> years! Just try to calculate the >> > > The MWI is a straight interpretation of our best theory of matter - an > interpretation that removes any extra assumptions (wave function collapse, > pilot waves, wave-particle duality etc). It is simply what the relevant > equations say, converted without interpretation to human language (if one > leaves aside the actual phrase "many worlds", which is misleading). The > equations imply that all possible outcomes occur for a given quantum event, > or to be exact that the entities we regard as particles are in fact waves, > capable of interfering with themselves, but only detectable (I suppose > "entanglable" would be a better word) by a process of localisation that is, > I'm told, neatly explained by decoherence. This implies that the universal > wavefunction is constantly spreading and differentiating. This is generally > characterised as "parallel universes coming into existence" but that isn't > a completely accurate description (and in any case it is quite possible > that space and time are emergent properties of the universal wavefunction). > > >> number of new universe that now exist. It's larger than the largest >> number that could ever be imagined or even written down. There is not >> enough paper in the universe, or enough computer memory in the entire >> universe to even express a number this large! Doesn't anyone ever use >> common sense and think through these things to see how stupid they are? And >> it violates all sorts of conservations since energy eg. is multiplied >> exponentially beyond counting. Geeez, it would be impossible to come up >> with something dumber, especially when it is completely clear that >> decoherence theory falsifies it conclusively. >> > > If that was a correct description of the MWI, you might have a point, but > it isn't. Oddly enough clever people *have* thought about this, some of > them on this very list. Have you read "The Fabric of Reality" by David > Deutsch? That's what Americans would call "MWI 101" or "The MWI for > dummies". If you have, you will know that the MWI posits a continuum of > "worlds" which can only ever differentiate, not "split" or "branch" or any > of the other common misconceptions. The fact that the universe can generate > greater and greater detail indefinitely (or possibly only to certain > physical limits, like the Bekenstein bound) is no more surprising than the > fact that in GR a finite universe can expand to infinite size (under > certain conditions), or that the centre of a black hole (according to GR) > is a singularity of infinite density. These are all properties of the > continuum, a mathematical object that may or may not describe space-time > (if it doesn't, it does so to very high precision, apparently many orders > of magnitude smaller than the Planck length). The idea that the MWI > violates the conservation of energy was laid to rest a long time ago. A > simple example is a quantum computer factoring a 500 bit number. The > equations of QM say that this is physically possible, even if we have > trouble doing it in practice - it requires 500 qubits to be suitably > prepared and then shaken down somehow (with Shor's algorithm, I think) to > obtain the result. QM says this happens by generating a superposition of 2 > to the power of 500 quantum states, which according to my trusty calculator > is quite a lot. These superpositions are in fact capable of decohering into > 2^500 possible states, although Shor's algo or whatever ensures that > 99.999...% of these give the right answer. The question is, how or where do > all these states exist? QM says they all exist right here, in "our > universe" (which the MWI claims is a convenient fiction, of course) - but > how can 2^500 states exist at the same time for the same qubits (which are > normally atoms, but could in theory be photons, electrons, etc) ? Where is > the calculation performed? This is a massive parallel computation, carried > out inside an object that could in theory be the size of a sugar cube. If > it was carried out using the computational resources of our universe, it > would need a *lot* of Hubble spheres - around 10^70 of them - to supply > the resources. > > So is QM wrong? Is a quantum computer impossible, or impossible beyond > some cutoff well below 2^500 qubits? If not, that qc contains 2^500 > mini-parallel-universes. But if you accept that, what happens when you > decohere them? Do you 2^500 slightly larger parallel universes, say > including the scientist who does the measurement? Or if not, why not? The > onus is on rival theories to explain where the cutoff occurs, and why. > > PS > If for some reason you *haven't* read FOR, go away and do so. Then you > will be in a position to discuss this topic without relying on a mistaken > interpretation of the MWI. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/1NWmK1IeadI/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Kindest Regards, Stephen Paul King Senior Researcher Mobile: (864) 567-3099 stephe...@provensecure.com http://www.provensecure.us/ “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as attorney work product. 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