On 01 Jan 2014, at 22:45, Chris de Morsella wrote:

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 3:50 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

On 31 Dec 2013, at 22:16, LizR wrote:

My 15 year old son asked me "Why do people believe in God?"

Because all correct machine, cognitively rich enough (= believing in numbers and induction, or being Löbian, ...) when they look inward, discover the gap between G and G*, or the gap between truth about them and proof about them.

Then some machine try to communicate that experience---which is impossible, and so they will use image and parables, which are not understood, and parrots repeat, politician exploits, and little children believe they parroting parents, teachers, etc.

We all believe, consciously or unconsciously, in God, in that large sense of a transcendental reason of our existence, but we are always wrong when we project attributes to It/Her/Him, and much more wrong when invoking them for direct terrestrial purposes, where "God" is only an authoritative argument (always invalid, especially in the religion field, where it used the most).

>>Adults believing literally in fairy tales are just infants refusing to grow spiritually. They are governed by people who want steal the responsibility and the maturity, and which have no interest at all in spiritual research. The goal is to steal more easily the money and power.

Religion – IMO -- can be distilled down to politics by other means; it harnesses the deepest urges and powerful impulses within us and systemizes these, providing channelized modalities of expression that provides the worshipper with internal validation and preset answers, while corralling them into a protean mass whose collective energy and “will” can be directed towards achieving whatever political goals is profitable for the individuals controlling the belief establishment. Something I find fascinating is how so many religions and pseudo- religions seek to establish a monopoly on belief….

I tend to think that only pseudo-religions do that. Some people can be genuinely half-enlightened, though, and be sincere in the attempt to communicate what is strictly incommunicable.

Computationalism will not be an exception. Some people will believe literally that G* minus G applies normatively to them, and this will make them inconsistent. That is why I insist it is only modest science and that we must make the hypotheses explicit (comp + some amount of cautious hope in meta-self-correctness).

on what can be believed and what cannot be believed. If belief is the currency of religion;

Belief is the currency of science, if not of everything.

it stands to reason that established faiths seek to maintain a stranglehold on the entire psychological apparatus of belief within the populations of individuals that are born into the regions (or communities) where these organized belief systems prevail.

If you can control the beliefs, you can control the people. But if theology is conceived as a science, then you get the means to interrogate the beliefs, criticize the theories, single out the contradiction and progress toward possible truth (Dt). That should help to avoid the "monopoly".

This asks for some amount of courage or "spiritual maturity". Maturity here is the ability/courage to realize and admit that we don't know. This has no sex-appeal, as we are programmed to fake having the answer, especially on the fundamentals, to reassure the kids or the member of the party ...



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