Edgar,

That begs the question. You start by assuming reality is computed, and then
conclude that because reality exists, reality must be computed.

Again I will point out that except for one key difference, your ideas and
Bruno's are actually pretty similar. The difference of course being that
the UDA entails that there are an infinity of computed realities.

Let me approach this from a different direction. Given that you agree that
you could be digitally replaced and not notice the difference, this also
entails that you could be placed into a simulation, where your simulated
brain is functionally identical to your real brain or the prosthetic brain
that could replace it with you noticing. So a simulation of you embedded in
a simulated world is also conscious - this is more or less what your theory
of consciousness says. The next step is to see that there are an infinity
of possible simulations that contain your current brain state, and thus
your consciousness, in this moment (or any given moment).

If you're still with me we can go back to the UDA, which in so many words
says that all of these infinite simulations exist in Platonia, traced by
the Universal Dovetailer (a rather simple program) - and your moment by
moment reality is a view from the inside of the infinity of simulations
that contain you. Indeed, physics and the physical world in general
represent a stable measure on the kinds of worlds that could support your
consciousness. But because the infinity of simulations is necessarily what
renders the physical world, it is not computable. That is the contradiction
entailed by a computational universe such as you elaborate in your theory.

Your objection about human math and reality math, I believe, is an attempt
to refute step 8 of the UDA - that is usually the most problematic step for
people who don't agree with the UDA. It would be very interesting if you
could identify a flaw in the UDA, supported by arguments rather than simple
assertion, as you have done to this point.

Terren


On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 9:34 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:

> Liz,
>
> No, that's not the only way to falsify it. One merely needs to show it
> doesn't properly describe reality as I've just done. If you even assume a
> computational universe in the first place you have to assume (you are
> assuming) that it computes reality. The fact that reality exists is
> conclusive proof.
>
> Edgar
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 9, 2014 8:53:18 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote:
>
>> On 10 January 2014 14:22, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Liz,
>>>
>>> No, I don't agree with that at all. As I've said on a number of
>>> occasions, reality is obviously computed because it exists. What more
>>> convincing proof could there be?
>>>
>>
>> One that explains why that has to be so would be a good start.
>>
>>
>>>  If Bruno's comp claims reality is non-computable it's pure nonsense
>>> that is conclusively falsified by the very existence of reality.
>>>
>>> The point is that certain assumptions lead to certain conclusions. If
>> the conclusions invalidate the assumptions, then the correct response is to
>> throw out the original assumptions as invalid. Bruno starts from the
>> assumption that consciousness is a form of computation and draws certain
>> inferences. This isn't what comp "claims" it's what the argument shows,
>> given the assumptions. The only way to falsify it is to show that one of
>> the assumptions is wrong, or that there is a flaw in the reasoning that
>> leads to the conclusions.
>>
>>
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