Dear Brent, You wrote: "That's a non-standard and confusing development of QM (besides being 168pages long). GR assumes a continuous spacetime manifold that is differentiable.."
Yes, I admit that it is non-standard and can be confusing. The math that Prof. Kitada uses is not well known by people outside of scattering theory experts. Work is currently underway to fix that. :-) Yes, GR assumes smooth Riemannian manifolds. The mapping works for them wonderfully. That fact was proven by the people that discovered Fiber Bundles. The hard thing to grasp is how the mapping between separable QM systems and the infinitesimal points of the smooth Riemannian manifold works and how to interpret what that tells us about QM systems. Basically, it tells us that the realm of QM and the realm of GR are separate forever, there is not a way to map QM rules onto the smooth Riemannian manifold in a global way. To do so makes time vanish. Wheeler and DeWitt proved this long ago with their W-D equation. Until Prof Kitada analyzed the W-D equation using results from scattering theory, it was assumed that it was not possible to make time pop back out of the theory, but he found a mathematically consistent way to do it. But his results disallow for the kind of concepts that Edgar and many others are advocating. On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 7:16 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > On 1/15/2014 3:21 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > Dear LizR, > > Thank you for the repost! > > Dear Edgar, > > > There is a reason why "this simple obvious fact" was not recognized in > literature. It has been proven to be nonsense. > > Your concept is: "the time of the present moment (what I call P-time) > which is absolute and common to all observers across the universe." > > P-time is not common to any pair or combination of observers. It cannot > be extended in any unambiguous way to span any pair of observers, so forget > about greater groups. Each observer has its very own notion of a Present > moment" and it is not shared or sharable. To be sharable, there must exist > some way to map the observation that one observe might have to that of > another and guess what, when we construct the set of possible maps between > observers that connects each and every shred of content, all of the > "commonality" of a notion of a present moment vanishes! > > In fact, in the math of GR there is a serious prohibition on a clock > that has a size greater than an infinitesimal point! See General > Covariance <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_covariance>. What kind > of periodicity do you think such a clock might have? The solution to this > obstruction to the notion of clocks in GR is to use something like afiber > bundle > construction<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_bundle_construction_theorem>and > associate a system to each and every infinitesimal point of the > space-time manifold. > This has been done http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0410061. > What was found is that each bundle must be completely disconnected from > all others. We cannot create a *single* space of points that will map to > the set of infinitesimal points that make up a space-time manifold. To do > so would prevent the existence of curvature - commonly known as gravity. > > > That's a non-standard and confusing development of QM (besides being > 168pages long). GR assumes a continuous spacetime manifold that is > differentiable.. > > Brent > > > A way out is to have an infinite number of totally disconnected > spaces, each mapped to a single point of space-time and build your clocks > in those spaces. This construction allows for a notion of time that is > consistent with both GR and QM but is not consistent with any notion of a > *absolute > and common P-time for **all observers across the universe*. > > We do experience gravity, thus the association of a single > external computational space to the space-time manifold is not allowed. > > > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 5:59 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 16 January 2014 11:53, Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net> wrote: >> >>> Liz, >>> >>> Do you know what my argument is? Quentin also claimed it was invalid >>> but he couldn't tell us what the argument is that he claims is invalid. Do >>> you know? >>> >>> You argued as follows: >> >> The proof is simply the fact that the time traveling twins meet up again >> with different clock times, but always in the exact same present moment. >> This proves beyond any doubt there are two kinds of time, clock time which >> varies by relativistic observer, and the time of the present moment(what I >> call P-time) which is absolute and common to all observers across >> the universe. >> >> When this is realized there are a number of profound implications. >> >> First that time travel outside the common present moment is impossible >> since all of reality (the entire universe) exists within/is the common >> present moment. The only time travel that is possible is having >> different clock times within the same shared present moment. >> >> Second, that this is compatible with only one cosmological geometry, >> named that the universe is a 4-dimensional hypersphere with P-time (not >> clock time) as its continually extending radial dimension. That is >> cosmological space is positively curved and finite. In fact we all see all >> 4-dimensions of this geometry all the time and visually verify this, as the >> radial P-time dimension is seen as distance in every direction from every >> point in the 3-dimensional space of the hypersphere's surface. >> >> What amazes me is that no one recognized this simple obvious fact prior >> to my stating it in my 1997 paper 'Spacetime and Consciousness'. It's a >> great example of how the trivially obvious can remain unrecognized, no >> matter how important, if it isn't part of the accepted world view of, in >> this case, either common sense or science..... >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/TBc_y2MZV5c/unsubscribe >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > > Kindest Regards, > > Stephen Paul King > > Senior Researcher > > Mobile: (864) 567-3099 > > stephe...@provensecure.com > > http://www.provensecure.us/ > > > “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use > of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain > information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and > exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as > attorney work product. 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