On 1/15/2014 3:21 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote:

Dear LizR,Thank you for the repost! Dear Edgar,There is a reason why "this simple obvious fact" was not recognized in literature. Ithas been proven to be nonsense.Your concept is: "the time of the presentmoment (what I call P-time) which is absoluteand common to all observers across the universe."P-time is not common to any pair or combination of observers. It cannot be extended inany unambiguous way to span any pair of observers, so forget about greater groups. Eachobserver has its very own notion of a Present moment" and it is not shared or sharable.To be sharable, there must exist some way to map the observation that one observe mighthave to that of another and guess what, when we construct the set of possible mapsbetween observers that connects each and every shred of content, all of the"commonality" of a notion of a present moment vanishes!In fact, in the math of GR there is a serious prohibition on a clock that has a sizegreater than an infinitesimal point! See General Covariance<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_covariance>. What kind of periodicity do you thinksuch a clock might have? The solution to this obstruction to the notion of clocks in GRis to use something like afiber bundle construction<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_bundle_construction_theorem> and associate a systemto each and every infinitesimal point of the space-time manifold.This has been done http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0410061.What was found is that each bundle must be completely disconnected from all others. Wecannot create a *single* space of points that will map to the set of infinitesimalpoints that make up a space-time manifold. To do so would prevent the existence ofcurvature - commonly known as gravity.

`That's a non-standard and confusing development of QM (besides being 168pages long). GR`

`assumes a continuous spacetime manifold that is differentiable..`

Brent

A way out is to have an infinite number of totally disconnected spaces, each mapped toa single point of space-time and build your clocks in those spaces. This constructionallows for a notion of time that is consistent with both GR and QM but is not consistentwith any notion of a /absolute and common P-time for //all observers across the universe/.We do experience gravity, thus the association of a singleexternal computational space to the space-time manifold is not allowed.On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 5:59 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com <mailto:lizj...@gmail.com>> wrote: On 16 January 2014 11:53, Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net <mailto:edgaro...@att.net>> wrote: Liz, Do you know what my argument is? Quentin also claimed it was invalid but he couldn't tell us what the argument is that he claims is invalid. Do you know? You argued as follows: The proof is simply the fact that the time traveling twins meet up again with different clock times, but always in the exact same present moment. This proves beyond any doubt there are two kinds of time, clock time which varies by relativistic observer, and the time of the present moment (what I call P-time) which is absolute and common to all observers across the universe. When this is realized there are a number of profound implications. First that time travel outside the common present moment is impossible since all of reality (the entire universe) exists within/is the common present moment. The only time travel that is possible is having different clock times within the same shared present moment. Second, that this is compatible with only one cosmological geometry, named that the universe is a 4-dimensional hypersphere with P-time (not clock time) as its continually extending radial dimension. That is cosmological space is positively curved and finite. In fact we all see all 4-dimensions of this geometry all the time and visually verify this, as the radial P-time dimension is seen as distance in every direction from every point in the 3-dimensional space of the hypersphere's surface. What amazes me is that no one recognized this simple obvious fact prior to my stating it in my 1997 paper 'Spacetime and Consciousness'. It's a great example of how the trivially obvious can remain unrecognized, no matter how important, if it isn't part of the accepted world view of, in this case, either common sense or science.....--You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups"Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/TBc_y2MZV5c/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Kindest Regards, Stephen Paul King Senior Researcher Mobile: (864) 567-3099 stephe...@provensecure.com <mailto:stephe...@provensecure.com> http://www.provensecure.us/ “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, notify sender immediately and delete this message immediately.” --You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "EverythingList" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email toeverything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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