Stephen, Once again, that's not the argument in question that proves it, that's a different train of thought.
Liz's "repost" has nothing to do with the argument I'm referencing. She clearly doesn't know what it is. Edgar On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 6:21:35 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > Dear LizR, > > Thank you for the repost! > > Dear Edgar, > > > There is a reason why "this simple obvious fact" was not recognized in > literature. It has been proven to be nonsense. > > Your concept is: "the time of the present moment (what I call P-time) > which is absolute and common to all observers across the universe." > > P-time is not common to any pair or combination of observers. It cannot > be extended in any unambiguous way to span any pair of observers, so forget > about greater groups. Each observer has its very own notion of a Present > moment" and it is not shared or sharable. To be sharable, there must exist > some way to map the observation that one observe might have to that of > another and guess what, when we construct the set of possible maps between > observers that connects each and every shred of content, all of the > "commonality" of a notion of a present moment vanishes! > > In fact, in the math of GR there is a serious prohibition on a clock > that has a size greater than an infinitesimal point! See General > Covariance <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_covariance>. What kind > of periodicity do you think such a clock might have? The solution to this > obstruction to the notion of clocks in GR is to use something like afiber > bundle > construction<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_bundle_construction_theorem>and > associate a system to each and every infinitesimal point of the > space-time manifold. > This has been done http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0410061. > What was found is that each bundle must be completely disconnected from > all others. We cannot create a *single* space of points that will map to > the set of infinitesimal points that make up a space-time manifold. To do > so would prevent the existence of curvature - commonly known as gravity. > A way out is to have an infinite number of totally disconnected spaces, > each mapped to a single point of space-time and build your clocks in those > spaces. This construction allows for a notion of time that is consistent > with both GR and QM but is not consistent with any notion of a *absolute > and common P-time for **all observers across the universe*. > > We do experience gravity, thus the association of a single > external computational space to the space-time manifold is not allowed. > > > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 5:59 PM, LizR <[email protected] <javascript:>>wrote: > > On 16 January 2014 11:53, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected] <javascript:>>wrote: > > Liz, > > Do you know what my argument is? Quentin also claimed it was invalid but > he couldn't tell us what the argument is that he claims is invalid. Do you > know? > > You argued as follows: > > The proof is simply the fact that the time traveling twins meet up again > with different clock times, but always in the exact same present moment. > This proves beyond any doubt there are two kinds of time, clock time which > varies by relativistic observer, and the time of the present moment (what > I call P-time) which is absolute and common to all observers across the > universe. > > When this is realized there are a number of profound implications. > > First that time travel outside the common present moment is impossible > since all of reality (the entire universe) exists within/is the common > present moment. The only time travel that is possible is having different > clock times within the same shared present moment. > > Second, that this is compatible with only one cosmological geometry, named > that the universe is a 4-dimensional hypersphere with P-time (not clock > time) as its continually extending radial dimension. That is cosmological > space is positively curved and finite. In fact we all see all 4-dimensions > > ... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
