# Re: Tegmark's New Book

```2014/1/17 Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net>

> Quentin,
>
> Yes, I understand this. But they are clearly not at the same clock time
> coordinates. So called 'coordinate time' is basically an accounting trick
> that relativity uses to d make sense of the problems I point out without
> realizing the real implications of those problems, namely that there is an
> entirely different P-time.
>
> Coordinate time says, if there was an absolute p-time it would work
> something like this but then claims there is no such absolute p-time which
> is contradictory. Well it doesn't work quite like that but that's what it
> tries to do, account for the problem of different clock times being in the
> same present moment.  But the only way to really account for that is to
> accept the fact that there is a present moment which is not the same as
> clock time.
>```
```
No to account for that, you have just to understand how relativity theory
works... I have a hint for you ===> "relativity'.

Quentin

>
> Coordinate time is not understood to be a separate physical time than
> clock time. It's just a different way of calculating clock times.
>
> Edgar
>
>
> On Friday, January 17, 2014 11:36:49 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014/1/17 Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net>
>>
>> Quentin,
>>
>> No, not at all. They are NOT at the same spacetime coordinates
>>
>>
>> Yes they are...
>>
>>
>> because their clock time t values are different.
>>
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinate_time
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_time
>>
>> Quentin
>>
>>
>>  Only if their clocktime t values as well as their x,y,z values were the
>> same would they be at the same spacetime coordinates. I hate to say it but
>> that is quite obvious....
>>
>> But they are in the exact same p-time present moment because they can
>> shake hands and compare clocks....
>>
>> Edgar
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, January 17, 2014 11:24:33 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014/1/17 Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net>
>>
>> Stephen,
>>
>> Your argument is fine. It's standard GR. BUT for the nth time it's
>> talking about CLOCK TIME simultaneity, rather than the present moment of
>> p-time. It still doesn't seem to register that there is a difference even
>> though the fact of the twins meeting with different clock times in the SAME
>> present
>>
>>
>> They are at the same present moment *because* they are at the same
>> spacetime coordinates, that's the only and unique reason as to why they can
>> meet at that moment, there is absolutely no need of an unexistant p-time.
>>
>> Quentin
>>
>>
>> moment clearly demonstrates they are different.
>>
>> You can argue no inherent absolute clock time simultaneities till the
>> cows come home and I will agree EVERY TIME.
>>
>> But that just ain't the p-time present moment as the twins prove over and
>> over ....
>>
>> Edgar
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 16, 2014 11:13:14 AM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote:
>>
>> Dear Edgar,
>>
>>   I already wrote up one argument against the concept of a universal
>> present moment using the general covariance requirement of GR. Did you read
>> it? It is impossible to define a clock on an infinitesimal region of
>> space-time thus it is impossible to define a "present moment" in a way that
>> could be "universal" for observers that exist in a space-time. There are
>> alternatives that I have mentioned.
>>    The non-communicability of first person informa
>>
>> ...
>
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--
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy
Batty/Rutger Hauer)

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