As your P-Time is not measurable either and solve nothing else than coordinate time does... it is useless... The twin can meet because they are at the same coordinates in the same reference frame... you don't need unexistant universal present time which is refuted by SR for that.

Quentin 2014/1/17 Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net> > Quentin, > > No. If you think so called 'coordinate time' is a real kind of time then > how do you measure it? > > You can't, it's just a calculation, a way of calculating things from > theoretical frames. Clock time is the only real kind of relativistic time > because it's the only kind of time that is actually observable and > measurable. Coordinate time is just calculations from imagined frames that > are not actually real because they are not measurable. > > Clock time is the only real and actual relativistic time and the > coordinate locations of clock times of the twins when they return are > simply NOT at the same clock time coordinate location. The twins are NOT at > the same clock time coordinate location. > > On the other hand the present moment of p-time is directly observable > (remember observation is the very basis of science) every moment of our > lives from birth to death no matter how clock times vary within it... > > P-time exists and is directly observable and solves all these problems > while clock time runs happily within it according to the well accept rules > of relativity, and whatever coordinate time calculations anyone wants to > make which are fine as well... > > Edgar > > > On Friday, January 17, 2014 12:31:55 PM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> >> >> >> 2014/1/17 Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> >> >> Quentin, >> >> Yes, I understand this. But they are clearly not at the same clock time >> coordinates. So called 'coordinate time' is basically an accounting trick >> that relativity uses to d make sense of the problems I point out without >> realizing the real implications of those problems, namely that there is an >> entirely different P-time. >> >> Coordinate time says, if there was an absolute p-time it would work >> something like this but then claims there is no such absolute p-time which >> is contradictory. Well it doesn't work quite like that but that's what it >> tries to do, account for the problem of different clock times being in the >> same present moment. But the only way to really account for that is to >> accept the fact that there is a present moment which is not the same as >> clock time. >> >> >> No to account for that, you have just to understand how relativity theory >> works... I have a hint for you ===> "relativity'. >> >> Quentin >> >> >> >> Coordinate time is not understood to be a separate physical time than >> clock time. It's just a different way of calculating clock times. >> >> Edgar >> >> >> On Friday, January 17, 2014 11:36:49 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> >> 2014/1/17 Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> >> >> Quentin, >> >> No, not at all. They are NOT at the same spacetime coordinates >> >> >> Yes they are... >> >> >> because their clock time t values are different. >> >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinate_time >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_time >> >> Quentin >> >> >> Only if their clocktime t values as well as their x,y,z values were the >> same would they be at the same spacetime coordinates. I hate to say it but >> that is quite obvious.... >> >> But they are in the exact same p-time present moment because they can >> shake hands and compare clocks.... >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On Friday, January 17, 2014 11:24:33 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> >> 2014/1/17 Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> >> >> Stephen, >> >> Your argument is fine. It's standard GR. BUT for the nth time it's >> talking about CLOCK TIME si >> >> ... > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.