On 1/17/2014 10:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 17 Jan 2014, at 07:10, meekerdb wrote:

On 1/16/2014 4:55 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On 13 January 2014 04:42, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> wrote:

I'm a lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way and I am
conscious, so I don't see why another lump of dumb matter arranged in
a special way might not also be conscious. What is it about that idea
that you see as not only wrong, but ridiculous?
I'm sorry I repeat this answer so many times, but this claim is also
made so many times. The main problem I see with this idea is that no
progress has been made so far in explaining how a lump of matter
becomes conscious, as opposed to just being a zombie mechanically
performing complex behaviors. Insisting that such an explanation must
exist instead of entertaining other models of reality strikes me as a
form of mysticism.

It's speculation, just like Bruno's speculation that physics can be recovered from the UD and modal logic.

No. UDA is a proof (or argument, as in step 8 I have to use Occam) that any rational person and indeed machine can understand that if it/she/he can survive with a digital brain "qua computatio", the physics can be recovered from UD and the modal logic.

the speculative covers only the "yes doctor", and the Church thesis (and thus the minimal amount of arithmetic to provide a sense to Church thesis).

Then AUDA does the job, constructively. It is an immense task, but I get already the propositional level of each points of view, including the logic of knowledge, observation, and sensations.

The only problem is that things get quickly technically very difficult, but the contrary would have been astonishing.

Or you believe in a finite unique physical universe, and that step 8 does not succeed in showing that it is a red herring?

I think step 8 uses a false premise that one can anticipate all the counterfactual events. Or looked at another way, it implies that to show consciousness could be realized without physics requires creating a whole physics.


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