On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 11:36:29 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 12 Feb 2014, at 13:24, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 5:18:21 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 11 Feb 2014, at 19:58, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> Our internal experience is informed directly by opportunities for >> quasi-veridical sensory entanglement from within, without, and beyond our >> neurology. It is the idea of information and numbers which is a >> meta-simulative technology that allows us to project our control beyond our >> physical limitations. Computation accelerates and amplifies existing >> tendencies of individual and collective users, both threatening and >> supporting our survival. >> >> >> Locally. But to do a scientific (modest and sharbale) theory, we need to >> start from 3p agreement, and usually scientists agree with statements like >> 17 is prime, but not on sense, quasi-veridical, entanglement, etc. >> > > I agree that it is an important political consideration, but I don't think > it is a scientific consideration. At one time the starting point statements > that authorities agree with were found in the book of Genesis. > > > > The analogy does not work, because the statement that 17 is a prime number > is everything but political. >
It's not the concept of prime numbers that is political, its the assumption that we must agree that they are important to understanding consciousness. "usually scientists agree with" is political. I would be more sympathetic with "in spite of what scientists/authorities agree with". > But if you want start a party on the idea that 17 is not prime, you are > free to make it political. > You're straw manning me. I don't see that anything that I have said has to do with the content of arithmetic statements, only that the popularity of arithmetic among scientists is no reason to insist that is where we must begin in an investigation of consciousness. > You will need propaganda, torture, terror, and many things like that to > keep power, but then why not, we are used to this. > Really laying on thick there. It doesn't bode well for the argument if any hint of a peek behind the curtain of arithmetic supremacy brings an evocation of cataclysmic consequences. > > My point was only that if you want to communicate something to others, you > have to adopt a language they understand, and start your theory from > statement on which they can agree "for the sake of the argument or not" > (that's private for the others). > I don't have a problem with that principle in general, but in this case, you are asking me to begin the conversation about insects by blanketing the garden with insecticide. You aren't factoring in the possibility that the framing of the discussion itself is a key component of what can be discussed. Once we agree to enter the silk flower greenhouse of mathematics, we have already lost the living meadow. > If not, all what you do is already a sort of propaganda. I'm afraid. > I'm afraid that is more projection than you will admit. Craig > > Bruno > > > > > > > > Craig > > >> Bruno >> >> >> >> Craig >> >> >>> Edgar >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
