On Sunday, February 16, 2014 12:35:59 AM UTC-5, Kim Jones wrote: > > > On 16 Feb 2014, at 2:06 pm, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com<javascript:>> > wrote: > > > > On Friday, February 14, 2014 10:23:35 PM UTC-5, Kim Jones wrote: >> >> >> >> On 15 Feb 2014, at 1:09 pm, meekerdb <meek...@verizon.net> wrote: >> >> On 2/14/2014 4:24 PM, Kim Jones wrote: >> >> >> On 14 Feb 2014, at 3:42 pm, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au> >> wrote: >> >> What about the CMBR? When it was created there were (presumably) no >> >> observers in existence in the universe. Are you saying it wouldn't exist >> if >> we hadn't evolved to detect it (e.g. if humans hadn't evolved, or if we >> had >> never invented radio telescopes) ? >> >> >> Yes - exactly. >> >> >> >> >> A direct consequence of The Reversal. First comes Mind. Physics and >> matter and the 3D holographic farmyard are a long way down the road. >> I hope no one is assuming that it requires something as weird as a >> “human” to implement consciousness. >> Something as basic as a Boltzmann brain would be in principle, instantly >> possible in any universe, surely. >> >> >> >> Of course Boltzmann brains are notoriously transient, so we're to think >> of the universe (or at least pieces of past light cones) blinking in and >> out of existence. Or does that take a Boltzmann brain plus optic nerves >> and eyes and a Boltzmann telescope? >> >> Brent >> >> >> A mind without a "hosting apparatus" is the entity I am struggling to >> describe. I have no trouble with the notion that consciousness can simply >> exist with no extra qualifiers whatsoever. We are talking about that which >> simply exists - when it exists, where it exists, its characteristics etc. >> are another story. I don't know whether such questions are even relevant. >> >> Kim >> > > Existence, when, where, and characteristics would all be conditions within > the primordial capacity for experience. > > Craig > > > OK - so Hameroff and Penrose's conjecture that consciousness was > a property of the primordial universe has legs then? These two are > physicalists though; if I read Russell correctly he is saying this. >
I would go further and say that the possibility of the primordial universe, as well as the possibility of properties is part of primordial sense. Craig > > Kim > > > >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
