> On 16 Feb 2014, at 2:06 pm, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On Friday, February 14, 2014 10:23:35 PM UTC-5, Kim Jones wrote: >> >> >>> On 15 Feb 2014, at 1:09 pm, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2/14/2014 4:24 PM, Kim Jones wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 14 Feb 2014, at 3:42 pm, Russell Standish <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> What about the CMBR? When it was created there were (presumably) no >>>>>> observers in existence in the universe. Are you saying it wouldn't exist >>>>>> if >>>>>> we hadn't evolved to detect it (e.g. if humans hadn't evolved, or if we >>>>>> had >>>>>> never invented radio telescopes) ? >>>>> >>>>> Yes - exactly. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> A direct consequence of The Reversal. First comes Mind. Physics and matter >>>> and the 3D holographic farmyard are a long way down the road. >>>> I hope no one is assuming that it requires something as weird as a “human” >>>> to implement consciousness. >>>> Something as basic as a Boltzmann brain would be in principle, instantly >>>> possible in any universe, surely. >>> >>> >>> Of course Boltzmann brains are notoriously transient, so we're to think >>> of the universe (or at least pieces of past light cones) blinking in and >>> out of existence. Or does that take a Boltzmann brain plus optic nerves >>> and eyes and a Boltzmann telescope? >>> >>> Brent >> >> A mind without a "hosting apparatus" is the entity I am struggling to >> describe. I have no trouble with the notion that consciousness can simply >> exist with no extra qualifiers whatsoever. We are talking about that which >> simply exists - when it exists, where it exists, its characteristics etc. >> are another story. I don't know whether such questions are even relevant. >> >> Kim > > Existence, when, where, and characteristics would all be conditions within > the primordial capacity for experience. > > Craig
OK - so Hameroff and Penrose's conjecture that consciousness was a property of the primordial universe has legs then? These two are physicalists though; if I read Russell correctly he is saying this. Kim > >> >> >> >> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
