On 19 Feb 2014, at 18:51, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:46:40 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal
wrote:
On 19 Feb 2014, at 17:18, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On 18/02/2014, David Nyman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I think if I say consciousness is an epiphenomenon of
biochemistry I
>> should also say that life is.
>
>
> And should you not go on to say that biochemistry is an
epiphenomenon of
> physics and physics is an epiphenomenon of .... well, something
that is not
> itself epiphenomenal, I guess? The way you formulate the problem
seems to
> tend to the conclusion that any and all appearances should
strictly be
> considered an epiphenomenon of something more fundamental that
cannot
> possibly be encountered directly. And, moreover, there is no
entailment
> that any such something be straightforwardly isomorphic with any
of those
> appearances. I'm not saying that this view is incoherent, by the
way, but
> do you agree that something like this is entailed by what you say?
I'm making a case for reductionism. If biochemistry necessarily
leads to consciousness
Biochemistry or anything Turing universal.
then I don't think this is any different to the situation where
biochemistry necessarily leads to life.
Ah!
But then life is clearly a 3p phenomenon, so why make consciousness
an epiphenomenon? Of course consciousness is "only" a 1p phenomenon,
but it can make sense (indeed as a sense maker or receptor).
Unless my view is right and 1p consciousness is only a subset of p
consciousness, and 3p is the (alienated, reduced) difference between
p and 1p.
This is accounted for my the difference between 1p and 1p plural.
Physics is 1p-plural, but "1p-plural" is also a local 3p.
Your p-consciousness seems like "élan vital", and if you use it to
distinguish carbon creature from silicon creature, it seems like "ad
hoc élan vital" to satisfy a sort of racist prejudice (based in the 3p
shapes that you considered no more as alienated here).
Bruno
Craig
Bruno
If we imagine that the biochemistry is all there but no
consciousness that would be like imagining that the biochemistry is
all there but no life (which Craig can apparently do).
--
Stathis Papaioannou
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Stathis Papaioannou
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