On Sunday, February 16, 2014, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 16, 2014 4:45:13 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, February 16, 2014, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, February 15, 2014 10:49:56 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: >>>> >>>> On 16 February 2014 01:32, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> > No, the copy of the experience has no belief or experience at all. >>>> The >>>> > reflection of the fire doesn't burn anything. >>>> >>>> Are you saying that the copy will be dead? >>> >>> >>> I'm saying that the copy was never alive to begin with. >>> >>> >>>> A pathologist would examine >>>> it and declare that it cannot possibly be dead, everything is normal. >>>> It not only looks like Craig, it also has skin, bones, internal >>>> organs, blood, the histological structure of the organs is all normal, >>>> biochemical analysis is normal, everything is normal. >>> >>> >>> You are assuming that is possible, but it isn't. All you can do is clone >>> me, which is no better than a twin brother as far as being a copy. No other >>> kind of reproduction will work, any more than a flame could be made out of >>> pixels. >>> >>> >>>> If it's all >>>> normal by every objective test but it is dead, that would be a >>>> miracle. >>>> >>> >>> It won't be normal by every objective test. You keep thinking of a >>> zombie, but I am talking about a doll. There are no zombies, just as there >>> is no way to turn lead into gold by a chemical transformation. >>> >> >> I'm proposing that all the atoms will be in place, put there by a >> futuristic version of a 3D printer. >> > > I understand, but I am saying that is not possible. Atoms do not literally > occupy 'places', it is only impressions of atoms which appear to occupy > relative places within a sense modality. If you try to copy a living cell, > you won't get an exact copy, you'll just get another living cell (if you're > lucky). > > >> Any analysis will then show that this is a normal human with healthy >> organs. >> > > It would, in a universe where it was possible to literally copy physical > presence, but it is not possible in this universe. Copying is a concept > that relies on our failure to detect differences from our perceptual > vantage point. There are no actual copies of physical events, and a human > lifetime is a single, irreducible physical event (within its own frame of > reference). > I'm not sure what you think I mean by "copy" but what I actually mean is that it is physically similar to the original, in the same way that a new black 32GB Google Nexus 5 phone is physically similar to every other such phone. They are not literally "the same phone" as they are physically distinct, and if you did very precise measurements you would find that they differ in multiple small ways, but if they came out of the factory within engineering tolerance they are close enough to be shipped to customers as "black 32GB Google Nexus 5". > A pathologist doing an autopsy of a cadaver finds at least some evidence >> of tissue damage consistent with death even if the cause of death is >> undetermined, but in this case he will find nothing wrong. Are you claiming >> that, nonenetheless, the 3D printed copy will be as lifeless as a cadaver? >> > > I doubt that a 3D printed copy of a fully developed body will ever live. A > 3D clone of DNA grown in vitro will live, but it will of course have a > separate life and be a separate person, just as all identical twins, even > brain-conjoined identical twins are separate people. If there were some way > to copy a fully developed body so that it lived, it would still not be a > copy of the original, but just a new original that reminds us of the copy > from the outside perspective. > > Craig > If the copy were not alive then as I said a pathologist would find some deficit in it, which would indicate a technical problem with the copying process. For example, it may be that its heart does not beat because, on close analysis, there is a structural problem with the myosin in the cardiac cells. To fix this would require an adjustment to the 3D printer. I'm spelling this out but usually in philosophical discussions it's assumed mere technical issues are solved. Or do you think there is some other ingredient that arbitrarily precise molecular assembly can never capture? If so, how would you explain the mystery of a body with apparently perfectly healthy tissues that is dead? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
