On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 5:33 AM, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 28-May-2014, at 10:12 pm, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ok, so let's talk some specifics. > > Islamists issued death sentences on people for artistic expression. > Famously on Salman Rushdie for writing a book, and several people for > drawing Mohammed. When I was living in Paris, the building of a small > publication was bombed for publishing a drawing of Mohammed. > > > The Quran advises us (6:68,69) to remove ourselves from the company of > those who blaspheme, till they do not change to another topic. It does not > prescribe any of the above forms of punishment. > > > Women in Islamic societies are frequently punished for being raped, their > husbands are allowed to beat them (against their will, I have nothing > against consensual BDSM), they are sentenced to stoning to death for > adultery (even when they were raped), they have to dress in a certain way > and can be publicly lashed for not doing so and they are prevented from > going to school. Even recently, young girls were attacked for attending > school. > > The Quran prescribes (24:1-14) 100 public lashes for adulterers (not rape > victim); for that 4 witnesses of the crime are required, and if the > witnesses are found to be lying, then 80 lashes for the persons who give > false witness, and they are to be banned from bearing witness in any other > case. > > Regarding beating by husbands, you refer to 4:15. I think the > interpretation of the word d-r-b is incorrect, and it is separation which > is advised, not beating. However, most translators and scholars insist it > means beating. I disagree. > > Quran advises (24:31) women the covering of their bosoms with scarf; head > covering is not explicitly stated but it's traditional in almost all > religions. Mother Mary's statues all show her head covered. Muslims did not > make those statues. Also, till about a century ago, almost all people, men > and women, used to wear some sort of headgear, in most cultures. > The Quran also advises (33:59) draping a cloak over the body, when going > out, if one fears for her safety. Is that good advise? > > Homosexuality is considered a crime. > > Yes, the people of Sodom received divine punished for it. Verse 4:16 > contains guidance for how to deal with this crime. > > Limb amputation is considered an acceptable punishment. > > Quran (5:38) prescribes cutting off the hand of the thief. I believe it is > implemented in Saudi Arabia where theft incidences are very low. However, I > have heard scholars argue that such laws can only be implemented in an > ideal Islamic welfare society where excuses / rationale for theft are > almost non-existent, and thereby stealing is a pure crime, not borne of any > need for survival. > > So, my question to you is this: do you condemn these actions? If so, do > you claim that they stem from a misunderstanding of the Quran? > > > I am a Muslim. I believe the Quran to be divine guidance. Therefore, I > accept everything in it, and try to understand the best meaning thereof. > However, on this forum, I only invite you all to benefit from the factual > accuracy of the Quran in your efforts to understand the world of science. I > am not asking anyone to become a Muslim. Faith, we believe, is God's gift > to the willing heart. > You're avoiding the point. Your specific claim was that the Quran teachings are ethical, and that perceptions to the contrary stem from media disinformation. So I submitted to you a list of things that make me conclude that the Quran teachings are unethical. Very honestly, my previous beliefs were reinforced. We have unreconcilable views on ethics. Telmo. > > Samiya > > > Telmo. > > > > On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> You assume that Islam is unethical. Quranic teachings are based on >> beautiful moral principles and enjoin ethical and just relations among >> people. The Quran repeatedly enjoins good actions, read it and you'll be >> amazed how far from truth all the negative propaganda against it is! >> Whether people study and follow the scripture or not is up to them. If we >> start following the guidance, most of the social evils will be weeded out. >> Sadly, you confuse peoples' thoughts, behaviour and actions with the >> message itself. It really doesn't matter if we label ourselves as Muslims, >> Jews, or any other religion or not, or if we are a member of the clergy or >> hold any leadership position in the community, it is basically our beliefs, >> intentions and actions that make us who we are and which we carry with us >> when we depart from this life. >> >> Samiya >> >> On 28-May-2014, at 8:52 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> For me, its the actual physical, ethics, that need to be tuned up. >> Getting to paradise, however delightful, over someone's dead body is >> unethical. Morality, is between humans and God technically, but ethics is >> between people. God, as he exists, can take care of himself, but the all >> the humbleness in the world, devotion, passion, cannot correct issues, if >> the Imams, and Muftis, instruct otherwise. Even if the Koran, Soonah, and >> Bukhari are all God given and have predictions that only God would know, it >> does no good if the earth gets drowned in blood by seekers of paradise. >> Unhelpful indeed. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: LizR <[email protected]> >> To: everything-list <[email protected]> >> Sent: Wed, May 28, 2014 12:32 am >> Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back! >> >> Here's page 1307 - I would prefer it if you quoted whatever it is >> you're referring to rather than giving a link to a (rather difficult to >> access) online book, because it doesn't mean much to me... >> <page1307.png> >> >> As for the second link, I don't understand what it says there either - it >> certainly isn't a very succinct "summary". >> >> >> On 28 May 2014 16:19, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> There is a debate between the interpretation of the word s-j-d. I assume >>> it also means to become lowly, humble, submissive, and not only physical >>> prostration. [http://www.tyndalearchive.com/tabs/lane/ Book 1 Page 1307 >>> ] >>> Summary of why is can't only mean physical prostration: >>> http://www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/Summary-problems-sujud-prostration-Quran.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 9:10 AM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Does it also explain how planets prostrate themselves? >>>> >>>> >>>> On 28 May 2014 15:51, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I won't be surprised if they eventually discover that there are a >>>>> total of 11 or 12 planets in the solar system. >>>>> [Al-Qur'an 12:4, Translator: Pickthall] When Joseph said unto his >>>>> father: O my father! Lo! I saw in a dream eleven planets and the sun and >>>>> the moon, I saw them prostrating themselves unto me. >>>>> [Al-Qur'an 12:100, Translator: Pickthall] And he placed his parents >>>>> on the dais and they fell down before him prostrate, and he said: O my >>>>> father! This is the interpretation of my dream of old. My Lord hath made >>>>> it >>>>> true, and He hath shown me kindness, since He took me out of the prison >>>>> and >>>>> hath brought you from the desert after Satan had made strife between me >>>>> and >>>>> my brethren. Lo! my Lord is tender unto whom He will. He is the Knower, >>>>> the >>>>> Wise. >>>>> >>>>> Samiya >>>>> http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 5:35 AM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Pluto Bids To Get Back Planetary Status Pluto has at least five >>>>>>> moons, an atmosphere and now a new analysis places its diameter as >>>>>>> bigger >>>>>>> than its outer solar system rival Eris. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/pluto-bids-for-planethood/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>> . >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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