Dear John, Thank you for sharing your amazing life story! You ask: 'Allow me please one more question: how is it balanced with the Day of the Divine Final Sentencing that people die now and some go to Heaven and some to Hell? (I am referring to the "72 virgins" vs. the "fire-created" Satan-helpers torture in Hell).'
I am not too clear on what exactly is the question, but let me share my understanding of trial and retribution, and please feel free to ask again if this does not meet your query. This life on Earth is a trial for each human, we each have a unique set of questions, situations, backgrounds, aptitudes, etc, and we all have a potential for good and evil, as well as the free-will to choose and intend. The trial ends with death. Everything that we think, do, believe, wish, hope, desire, imagine, etc., is all being continuously recorded. God is ever-present and witness to everything (including the trials set forth for each one), and never forgets. Further, God has arranged for it all to be recorded, and there are angels recording everything, which will be presented as a scroll, so completely detailed that we ourselves will be able to evaluate ourselves and know whether we belong in Heaven or Hell. The operating principle about Divine Judgement is that nobody will be wronged in the least. I think that includes God, since ascribing partners to God is stated as the greatest and most unforgivable wrong. Hell is something over which all will have to pass (Quran 19:70, 71). It is imagined as a bridge which each one must cross to make it to Heaven. There are many suggested prayers in the Quran to ask for protection from the fire. However, Heaven is only mentioned as a reward and final destination for those whom God blesses with His Approval. Those who are blessed by God, will be able to pass over the bridge upon Hell, and reach Heaven. Those who have earned Hell will fall therein. Those whose scales are neither titled in favour of Heaven or Hell will be assigned either Heaven or Hell in God's infinite wisdom and knowledge, the operating principle again being that none will be wronged in the least. According to a scholar, there are three categories upon death: (1) the large general category who will remain in a state of sleep till resurrection and will then face their deeds. (2) the few who have lived their lives so well that they have earned God's approval and are greeted by angels with the good news of Heaven, and continue to live (in another world veiled from us, not reincarnation here) or dream in a state of bliss till resurrection (3) the few who have earned and incurred divine wrath and will endure torture and suffering from the moment they die till the day of resurrection when they will finally enter Hell I do not find the count of 72 virgins in the Quran. Yes, other books do refer to such things and attribute such sayings as explanations from the Prophet. If I may borrow your phrase: I dunno :) What I do know is that the Quran says so many things and gives so many analogies and similitudes of Paradise. It speaks of a magnificent realm, gardens with subterranean rivers, moderate weather and shades, plentiful and delicious fruits and meats, milk and honey, and non-intoxicating drinks in crystalline silver goblets, fine clothing of silk and gold, family, pairs or spouses (soul-mates?), fulfilment of all desires, such peace and serenity that no one would ever desire any change of state, ... and it also mentions 'hurs' or virgins with beautiful eyes, but as I've mentioned in an earlier exchange, the word itself is neuter gender, so again, I dunno. Another thing that is mentioned in the Quran, and which makes a lot of sense to me in terms of the widely differing trials and lifestyles of the haves and have-nots in this world, is that good things in the life of this world are actually for the good people to expect and know what awaits them in a better, more excellent, perfected form in Heaven, and deprivation and suffering is also a preview of a much more intense form of what will be given as punishment in Hell. However, please note that what we enjoy or endure in this life is neither reward nor punishment, it's just our question paper, and the easier it seems, the more sternly will it be judged. We will be questioned about all the good that we are given, including all comforts, conveniences and abilities, and will have to account for how we used them. Does the above address your question? Samiya On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 5:31 PM, John Mikes <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Samiya, thanks unlimitedly for your kind and information-laden > response that opens eyes (mine included). I fell into political turmoil at > an early age (WWII) and struggled to learn how to make a living in > science/technology. I learned Latin and Gothic alphabets at 4-5 (on my > own), Cyrillic and Hebrew at 7, Greek a bit later. Learned 2 mother-tongues > at ~3, Latin for 8 years, French over 4+, English for 2, speak a little > Italian and Russian, so Scripture etc. was suppressed in the fertile age. I > am a learned classical pianist, did public performances over 75 years > (parallel to a technical career with 38 patents to my name). I love Iqbal's > maxim. I wrote books and papers, lectured on 3 continents. > > I am a natural scientist by training and still cannot position a "Creator" > into the terms of that short-lived creature (humans) on this tiny mud-ball > of a negligible star in a negligible galaxy of the infinite totality we got > a glimpse of lately. Also with the billions of years now accountable it > seems unrealistic to collect-or-not salvation, or hell, for people with so > diverse potentials and lifespans. This prompted my reference to > reincarnation, not the Indian 2 versions, but in diverse worlds different > and unrestricted. We have no idea how diversified and big the totality may > be. > > You wrote to the Guitarist Cowboy: > *"... When the entire known creation are bound by the laws of nature, then > how can it be that humans are not bound by anything. This free-will, > ability to harness power, this so to say dominance over the Earth, how can > it all come to humans only, and not some other creation? And if we humans > are blessed with some unique privileges, there has to be some > responsibility and accountability attached to such freedom of action. What > do you think?* ..." > > I think you are right. There is (IMO) -NO- free will, there is the > infinite complexity and it's pressures that push us. We, humans, cannot > harness power, have no dominance over Earth (look at the climate-change or > a possible cool-off of the Sun) and we are rookies here (10M years of the > 13 bllion years of THIS galaxy) doomed to extiction by various reasons - > soon. Our "privileges" are devilish. We kill. Against religion, for > religion, by religion and without religion. Shoot, behead, stone, etc. We > are malicious and evil. > > Allow me please one more question: how is it balanced with the Day of the > Divine Final Sentencing that people die now and some go to Heaven and some > to Hell? (I am referring to the "72 virgins" vs. the "fire-created" > Satan-helpers torture in Hell). > > You see, I wanted to abstain from such discussions. Your kind words, > however, did it to me. > > > > > On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Dear John, >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 5:25 PM, John Mikes <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Dear Samiya, people ask the wrong questions. >>> >> >> Maybe, or maybe I need to study and reflect much more before I can answer >> properly >> >> >>> Why and HOW did you pick the Quran as the SOURCE of your answers, if not >>> because you grew up in a family/society where you heard about it day in and >>> day out? >>> >> >> In our society, Arabic is not a spoken/understood language. Children are >> taught to read the Arabic script, i.e. pronounce the words, without being >> taught the language. The Arabic script is similar to the Urdu script (the >> language spoken in Pakistan), so its easy to learn to read even if you >> cannot understand. Traditionally, people think its a means of earning >> blessings to recite, hence many recite without understanding the scripture. >> I used to think that was a flaw in our Muslim, Pakistani society, but >> Hindus in Pakistan and India also similarly recite their scriptures in >> Sanskrit. I suppose its a traditional / cultural thing of the Indo-Pak >> subcontinent, who started and who followed, I don't know. >> I started studying the Quran with meaning when I was in my late teens, >> comparing different translations, as when reading just one translator, some >> verses' translations just didn't make sense (partly due to my lack of >> knowledge, and partly due to the translation and partly due to my ideas of >> how I wanted the scripture to be). My interest in science also helped me in >> critically reading the scripture, looking for the correct >> explanation. However, reading various translations gave me the confidence >> that when we can't understand something, we need to look harder, not just >> write-off the scripture. >> >> I grew up in a different society and did not even 'think' of checking for >>> 'truth' in the Quran (especially not in old Arabic language of which I >>> really knew nothing) but was advised other 'books' for 'truth(?)'. >>> I went through several ones of those, liked none of them. So I became >>> agnostic. (=I dunno) >>> >> >> I did my schooling at a Convent school, from age 5 till high school, so I >> was exposed to Christianity since an early age. Christians and Hindus are >> also a substantial part of the Pakistani society, so there was this >> exposure to and interaction with people of other faiths. Furthermore, as I >> mentioned in an earlier post, since my father was studying interfaith, >> hence I was exposed to scriptures of various religions. Eventually, I did >> read scriptures of other faiths. I think all scriptures have gems of >> wisdom, though all except the Arabic Quran, contain a mixture of divine >> scripture and human additions. >> I started trying to learn the Arabic grammar about 15 years ago in an >> effort to understand the Quran on my own. I also started to attend sermons >> by various scholars to hears different points of view and understandings of >> religion and scripture. From one, I came to appreciate the Majesty of the >> Creator, from another I learnt about Divine Love and Mercy, and from >> another I learnt humility and submission to Divine Will. >> My most earnest study of the Quran has been in the past three years when >> I was faced with a roller-coaster of peculiar moral and ethical dilemmas >> and I needed to touch root. While holding on to the guidance, I came to >> appreciate the Divine love and wisdom which protects us from following >> desires which lead us to ruin, asking for sacrifices which are only in our >> own best interests. >> >> >> >>> BTW how did a Native American, or an Inuit in past centuries get to the >>> Prophet's teachings? >>> How the illiterate Aborigines? Chinese-Japanese? Easy for the Arabic >>> talking Mid-Easterners. >>> >>> >> The Arabic Quran is not the only scripture, it is the last of the >> divinely revealed scriptures. We believe that all communities received >> guidance in the form of prophets, messengers and scriptures. Isn't it true >> that people all over the world and all throughout history have had some >> form of religion, and there are some common threads which are suspiciously >> similar across religions? Almost all religions, or at least their >> scriptures, start off with the belief in one God, yet eventually morph into >> a polytheistic religion. >> >> To believe in the unseen God, angels, scriptures, messengers, hereafter, >> good and evil, etc doesn't require an Arabic Quran or a Mid-Eastern >> background. There are many Arabs in the Middle East who do not believe / >> practice Islam, and there are many people all over the world who practice >> the virtues exhorted in the Quran without ever having read it. As a famous >> poet Iqbal wrote about a century ago, to paraphrase it: when I was in the >> West, I saw Islam without Muslims, when I was in the East, I saw Muslims >> without Islam. >> >> The advantage we have in this day and age is that we all have the Quran >> available at our fingertips on the internet, and we also have a whole range >> of scriptures, translations, lexicons, etc to do our own research. >> >> Samiya >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 14-Jul-2014, at 2:00 pm, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 Samiya Illias <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Why do you need to see God to believe in God? >>>>> >>>> >>>> You don't. To believe in God all that is needed in 99 times out of 100 >>>> is for your mommy and daddy to tell you that there is a God. Not only that >>>> but your mommy and daddy will tell you which particular God franchise is >>>> the one true franchise and the chances are overwhelming that is the one you >>>> will belong to for your entire life. Why else do you think geography has so >>>> much to do with religious belief? >>>> >>>> That is because most people choose the religion of their parents, as >>>> part of culture and are comfortable confirming to social norms, instead of >>>> honest intellectual inquiry and search. >>>> Blind following of parental faith is condemned in the Quran. >>>> Samiya >>>> >>>> John K Clark >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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