This illustrated video might be of interest: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151781219163852
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > 2014-07-17 17:04 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>: > > >> On 16 Jul 2014, at 19:31, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> >> 2014-07-16 19:22 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>: >> >>> >>> On 15 Jul 2014, at 22:14, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2014-07-15 22:10 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>: >>> >>>> >>>> On 14 Jul 2014, at 17:25, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2014-07-14 17:13 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 14 Jul 2014, at 12:53, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2014-07-14 12:09 GMT+02:00 Samiya Illias <[email protected]>: >>>>> >>>>>> Why do you need to see God to believe in God? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Why should you believe if you can know ? If you can't, why should you >>>>> believe instead of not believing or go eating an hamburger ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Seeing might make you know *that* you see, but it does not entail that >>>>> you know *what* you see, as you might be dreaming or hallucinating. >>>>> >>>> >>>> That wasn't what I was implying... I see not point to "believe" or not >>>> "believe"... Why *shoud* I believe anyway ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Just to clear things up, I use the common part of all "analytical >>>> definition of belief theory and knowledge theory", and in particular >>>> (knowing p) -> (believing p). >>>> >>>> If you know that there is milk in the fridge, you believe that there is >>>> milk in the fridge. >>>> >>>> The key difference is that the reciprocal is false. If you believe >>>> there is milk in the fridge , you can still "not know it". >>>> >>> >>> Well I can accept such language in mathematics where you make clear what >>> is meant, not in every day use.... when someone says he *believes* in god, >>> >>> >>> I use "believe" in the same mundane sense that "I believe that there is >>> orange juice in the fridge, >>> >> >> I believe in *god* is not like I believe there is orange juice in the >> fridge. >> >> >> What is the difference? >> >> > It imply faith, dogma. It imply an ontology about the world, the reality. > > >> >> >> >> >> >>> and later like in I believe in the axiom of elementary arithmetic and in >>> its first order logical consequence, or in "I don't believe the machine k >>> will stop on the input j. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> that's not what he meant... That's what I don't like in your approach to >>> insist using everyday word in everyday language *but* with your own >>> mathematical meaning. It's misleading you should see it. >>> >>> >>> I use "belief" in the doxastic sense of the analytical philosophers. >>> Iuse "belief" in the sense of Theaetetus, Gerson, etc. >>> >> >> You use those words in a misleading way... You do what you want of >> course... but you're clearly totally misunderstood when you talk to a >> believer. >> >> >> I am probably misunderstood by the "blind-faith" type of believers, >> > > That means 99% of the persons who say openly they "believe in god". > > >> like the strong atheists >> > > I've never met such kind of "atheist". > > >> I met from time to time (like John Clark to give the nearest example). >> > > He surely doesn't believe in abrahamic god... And I quite agree that using > that word for first cause type of explanation is bound to be misunderstood. > "God" has too much history to be used in the sense you use it. > > Quentin > > >> But as John Clark illustrates very well, they need a high dose of >> irrationalism, and as my works has illustrated, changing the vocabulary >> does not help. >> >> In interdisciplinary work, my strategy consists in using the terms on >> which each each discipline has the greatest consensus over. I am aware that >> this cannot satisfy everybody, but then in science we don't waste time in >> vocabulary discussion. If something is unclear about the use of some term, >> we just ask to remind the current used definition. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> >> Quentin >> >> >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quentin >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Bruno >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> In general you believe something, not because you see it, but because >>>>> it fits well with your background knowledge. I can't see the set {0, 1, 2, >>>>> ...}, nor really define it, yet I hardly doubt that it makes sense, as it >>>>> explains a lot of other things in which I already tend to believe (like >>>>> the >>>>> non existence of a bigger prime, or the existence of universal numbers, >>>>> the >>>>> real numbers, etc.). >>>>> >>>>> Bruno >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Quentin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 14-Jul-2014, at 2:14 am, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/13/2014 3:47 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Sure: "Do you believe in a theist god?" >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd like to. >>>>>> >>>>>> *So we can keep using the word "theology" and keep some academic >>>>>> departments that have no subject.* >>>>>> >>>>>> This would also include political science, arts, gender studies, >>>>>> french literature. Are you willing to go that far, and make what doesn't >>>>>> build bridges or bake bread, something to be learned as a podcast? Sauce >>>>>> for the goose, sauce for the gander. Dump them all. Right? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I can point to art, people with genders, and french literature. I've >>>>>> run a political campaign. But I've never seen a god. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brent >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>> . >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>> . >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >>>>> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >>>> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> >>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >>> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy > Batty/Rutger Hauer) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
