On 14 Jul 2014, at 18:06, Samiya Illias wrote:
On 14-Jul-2014, at 11:08 am, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
On 14 Jul 2014, at 12:09, Samiya Illias wrote:
Why do you need to see God to believe in God?
Good point, especially coming from a literalist :)
:)
I agree that God, actually like a Universe, is not seeable.
at least not by temporary mortal beings such as the human body we
are (in) now
To see a universe, you would need to send photons, or some thing,
to it, and see how that is reflected.
Interesting point. Since God is described as Noor (spiritual light)
in the Quran, I suppose we can't really see light by shining light
on it, especially if both are colourless, or same colour...
It is a complex subject which can lead us in another topic. Light
behaves in the quantum way, and nowadays we can see an object in the
total darkness by shining light somewhere else, and this "in parallel
universes".
Those type of beings are either inferred in some 3p way, or
intuited in some 1p way, and not only we can't prove them to exist
or to make sense, but we cannot provide any 3p exhaustive
description. It is the same for arithmetical truth, and provably so
if we assume that we are Turing emulable.
I do think we might be able to awake the God in us, but that leads
to a first person experience, which, like consciousness, cannot
belong to a publicly available set of genuine scientific sharable
evidences.
Agree, such experiences are deeply personal and they cannot be proved.
OK.
However, there has to be some way of examining whether such
experience is genuinely a God experience or something else.
It is plausible (and makes sense with computationalism) that the 1p-
experience of "God" exists, and share with consciousness that it is
undoubtable, but it is doubtful that this can be asserted,
communicated, verifiable, examined in any third person communicable
way. If that existed, it would be possible to fake it, and religion
would become parroting.
If God, while creating everything, has paid attention to the finest
detail such as DNA coding and quarks and strings, then why is it so
difficult or impossible that God would also give us a user manual
(guide/scripture) along with this trial (life)?
With computationalisme, God has no choice in the matter of matter
(sorry for the pun). "matter" is more like a symptom that God might be
a little sleepy from "time to time".
My feeling here is that anthropomorphize God to much, like if you have
completed the research.
St-Thomas already argued convincingly (imo) that God cannot be
omnipotent and omniscient.
With comp God can trade of between the outer God, quasi-omniscient but
quasi without any power, and the inner God, quasi-omnipotent (indeed
Turing universal at least), but with few knowledge left, indeed
incarnated in a seemingly finite body and history.
And that's the harmonic state (concerning truth, belief and
knowledge). By its lack of knowledge, the inner God can fall asleep
and dream, forget its divine roots, and unlike most animals, behave
accordingly. That leads to quanta and qualia and the *physical/
sensible* reality, which hurts (the non harmonic state, concerning the
observational and the suffering).
Such theology has some advantage for solving the problem of evil, as
it would come from a justifiable difficulty for universal machines to
recognize themselves, or their inner god, and from giving too much
easily names/descriptions to unnameable things.
Bruno
Samiya
Yet, such experiences can still be "personally life changing", like
with near death experiences, or with LSD, or salvia, etc.
Bruno
On 14-Jul-2014, at 2:14 am, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote:
On 7/13/2014 3:47 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Sure: "Do you believe in a theist god?"
I'd like to.
So we can keep using the word "theology" and keep some academic
departments that have no subject.
This would also include political science, arts, gender studies,
french literature. Are you willing to go that far, and make what
doesn't build bridges or bake bread, something to be learned as
a podcast? Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander. Dump them
all. Right?
I can point to art, people with genders, and french literature.
I've run a political campaign. But I've never seen a god.
Brent
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