On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Russell Standish <[email protected]>
wrote:

> The trouble I have, is that there are obvious ways of achieving the same
> ends that don't involves consciousness


I don't see how you could know that. Other than by observing behavior how
do you know what does and doesn't involve consciousness? For that matter,
other than by observing behavior how does Evolution know what does and
doesn't involve consciousness? If Evolution can't see it then Evolution
can't select for it, and yet Evolution made me and I am conscious; this
fact severely limits the number of hypothetical processes that can possibly
produce consciousness.

  John K Clark

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