On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 1:11 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9/26/2014 3:33 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:07 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 9/25/2014 10:09 AM, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:05 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> Evolution is only interested in intelligent behavior because >>>> only that and not consciousness helps get genes into the next generation. >>>> So how did consciousness manage to produce at least one being (me) that's >>>> conscious? There are only 2 possibilities: >>>> >>>> 1) Perhaps consciousness aids in producing intelligent behavior. If >>>> this is true then it would be easier to make a intelligent computer that >>>> was conscious than to make a Intelligent computer that was not >>>> conscious. It would also mean that the Turing Test is not only a test >>>> for intelligence but was also a good (although not infallible) test for >>>> consciousness too. >>>> >>>> 2) The only way to produce intelligent behavior is to process >>>> information, and perhaps it's just a brute fact that consciousness is >>>> how information feels when it's being processed. >>>> In my opinion #2 is more likely than #1 but if Darwin was right then >>>> one of the two must be true, But either way consciousness must be a >>>> biological spandrel, and if you ever run across a smart computer you can >>>> conclude that it's probably conscious too. >>>> >>> >>> > I think #1 is more likely, so long as we identify consciousness with >>> what we experience >>> >> >> I don't know why you say "we", there is only one being you know to be >> conscious without even the smallest doubt. And things happen even to rocks, >> is this what you mean by "experience"? >> >> >> You should read at least to the end of the sentence before asking what it >> means. >> >> >> >>> > imaging, inner narrative, language (does anybody here think they >>> could formulate and understand Lob's theorem without language?). >>> >> >> But does use of language imply consciousness? >> >> >> No, but I think it is necessary to much of my consciousness, i.e. without >> it I would have a different and diminished consciousness. >> >> If so then Watson is conscious, after all the only way we have of >> knowing if somebody understands something is to ask them questions about it >> and see if they give satisfactory answers. >> >> >> Sure, I think Watson is conscious, but not as conscious as I am. For >> example I don't think Watson could pass the usual test I get when I crash >> my motorcycle: How many fingers do you see? >> > > So a blind person is less conscious than you? > > > Slightly. Unless they have heightened compensatory perceptions in other > modes. > Ok. So it's fairly accepted that blind people do compensate on other perception channels. It could also be argued that blindness makes it easier to be aware of internal states. People tend to close their eyes when they need to process some strong emotion, for example. I use headphones with noise cancelation playing some repetitive noise when I am having trouble focusing on some writing task or algorithm. So it all seems to boil down to being aware of certain parts of the universe versus other parts. Why is is that perceiving photons being emitted around me makes me more conscious than closing my eyes and thinking about some abstract algorithm, for example? This seems to lead to an infinite regress of consciousness being a property that is granted from interaction with some ever expanding "outside". Telmo. > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
