On 08 Dec 2014, at 16:50, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 5:59 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> At one time the human race was knowledgeable enough to construct
the Antikythera Mechanism, but 200 years after it was made Jesus was
born and started a major world religion, and 630 years after Jesus
Mohamed was born and started another major world religious; and by
the time Mohamed died we'd lost over 90% of our smarts. Actually
there is some truth in what you say, certainly during Mohamed's
lifetime nobody on the planet knew how to make something like the
Antikythera Mechanism, a device that was made nearly a thousand
years before.
I said it before I'll sat it again, religion makes people stupid.
> Not religion, but the imposition of a religion to others,
Until just a couple of centuries ago the 2 things were virtually
synonymous, and even today it remains true for hundreds of millions
of people, especially in the Islamic world.
Yes, but the same for science. We have separate science from politics
(very approximattely), and religion is still a problem because we
don't have separate it from the argument of authority.
> that is made possible by the separation of religion from science
Religion is made possible by the separation of critical thinking
from the population,
Bad science is made possible by that separation. You confuse religion
and the use of religion by people wanting to control other people.
I agree with you if you replace "religion" or "theology" with
"institutionalized religion/theology". That is why I insist that we
have to separate "theology" from any form of temporal power, except
the academies, where we can question everything and adopt
methodological questionning, make theories, etc.
that's why critical thinking was illegal and punishable by death in
the past, and still is in many places.
Yes. Again this is true for all branches of science, including
theology. You seem happay that we can use critical thinking, so why
not promote it in all field, including health and religion.
> You have never refute my argument that (strong) atheism is de
facto ally with the Churches against reason.
Let me see if I understand you correctly, you believe I have not
spent enough time refuting your monumentally silly "argument" that
atheist is just a slight variation of Christianity. Did I get that
right?
Yes. Just saying "silly" is not an argument. It is just plain obvious
that as long as we don not promote reason in theology, we let the
field to those who promote the use of violence (verbal or not). So
strong atheism maintains the religion in the hand of the
irrationalist. Then most strong atheists believe in primary matter in
a dogmatic way. They say you are mad if you doubt it, for example. In
thats sense they share the main metaphysical axiom of the christian,
and obliterate the fact that science is born from taking a distance
with that dogma. Then atheists share the definition of God taken by
the Christians-Jews-Muslims, even if it is used to assert its non
existence, forgetting buddhism, hinduism, taoism, platonism,
neoplatonism. except that some string atheists asserts those gods does
not exist, but those are the one who believe the most in primitive
matter, without providing any evidence for it. Yes, atheism, seen from
Plato, is a variant of christianism: same God, same Matter, same
mockery of the entire field of theology, same attempt to hide the mind-
body problem under the rug, etc. And of course, same dismiss of
applying reason on fundamental questions, a bit like your "refutation"
of step 3 of the UDA, where everyone show you the error(s) you made,
and then you redo it again and again and again. That is typical of
people having religious dogma. They stop thinking.
Bruno
John K Clark
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
