On 12/9/2014 8:50 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 4:30 PM, John Clark <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:22 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>> At one time the human race was knowledgeable
enough to construct
the Antikythera Mechanism, but 200 years after it was
made Jesus
was born and started a major world religion, and 630
years after
Jesus Mohamed was born and started another major
world religious; and by the time Mohamed died we'd lost
over 90%
of our smarts. Actually there is some truth in what you
say,
certainly during Mohamed's lifetime nobody on the
planet knew
how to make something like the Antikythera Mechanism, a
device
that was made nearly a thousand years before.
>>>> I said it before I'll sat it again, religion makes
people stupid.
>>> Not religion, but the imposition of a religion to others
>> Until just a couple of centuries ago the 2 things were virtually
synonymous, and even today it
remains true for hundreds of millions of people, especially in the
Islamic
world.
> Yes, but the same for science.
Oh yes science is just as intolerant as religion, throughout the centuries
many
thousands have been burned to death at the stake for denying that the
logarithm of
42 is 1.6232492904 <tel:1.6232492904>. And don't forget the bloody wars
fought
between the base 10 adherents and the natural logarithm faithful.
Science and religion are not people, they are concepts. So they are not tolerant or
intolerant. People can be tolerant or intolerant in the name of concepts. Have people
been extremely intolerant in the name of science? Sure. Both nazism and stalinism are
notorious examples.
One might argue that Stalin was intolerant in the name of the "science" of economics -
although Marx was more of a philosopher than scientist. But Hitler and Nazism were
intolerant in the name of a mystical Christian racism.
"We stand at the end of the Age of Reason. A new era of the
magical explanation of the world is rising."
--Adolf Hitler from Gespräch mit Hitler by Herman Raschning
quoted by Francis Slakey "When the lights of reason go out" New
Scientist 11 September 1993.
"Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the
world enemy -- the Jews. The work that Christ started but did not
finish, I, Adolf Hitler, will conclude."
--- "The Book of Political Quotes," London: Angus & Robertson
Publishers, 1982, p. 195)
"I would like to thank Providence and the Almighty for choosing me of all people to be
allowed to wage this battle for Germany,"
--- Adolf Hitler - Berlin March, 1936
We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity in fact our movement
is Christian.
---Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, Bundesarchiv
Berlin-Zehlendorf, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall¹s The Holy Reich]
³We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore
undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few
theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.²
---Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933
And it was not as though the Nazis invented this intolerant mystic Christianity.
"Those who object to the punishment of heresy are like dogs
and swine,"
--- John Calvin
“When we come to believe, we have no desire to believe anything else, for we begin by
believing that there is nothing else which we have to believe…. I warn people not to
seek for anything beyond what they came to believe, for that was all they needed to seek
for. In the last resort, however, it is better for you to remain ignorant, for fear that
you come to know what you should not know…. Let curiosity give place to faith, and
glory to salvation. Let them at least be no hindrance, or let them keep quiet. To know
nothing against the Rule [of faith] is to know everything.”
--- Tertullian
"Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of
his Reason."
--- Martin Luther
"We are at fault for not slaying them [the Jews]."
---Martin Luther, "On the Jews and Their Lies"
"What shall we do with...the Jews?...set fire to their
synagogues or schools and bury and cover with dirt whatever
will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or
cinder of them."
---Martin Luther
Brent
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