On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > 2015-01-14 16:16 GMT+01:00 Jason Resch <[email protected]>: > >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> 2015-01-14 15:39 GMT+01:00 Jason Resch <[email protected]>: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Correlations don't prove causal relations, >>>> >>> >>> >>> I know all I point out, is that there are now many study done on that >>> correlation... You can dismiss them.. >>> >> >> My point is that correlations themselves (even when proven) are >> effectively meaningless. Take the supposed evidence that nutritionists used >> to demonize fat as leading to heart attacks. Correlations where shown >> between various countries that showed countries with higher fat intake had >> higher incidence of heart disease. But it was later shown that fat intake >> in countries was determined largely by the countries per capita GDP. So now >> you can see the correlational study (which put the blame on fat) could be >> explained by anything else that correlates with per capita GDP: stress, >> long working house, consumption of sugar, cigarette use, etc. >> >> Think of it this way: if heart attacks correlate with economic >> development of a country, another study might have been able to show a >> strong correlation between driving cars and heart attacks (because more >> cars are owned and more people drive in those countries). But it would have >> almost certainly been wrong to conclude "Drive less to avoid heart >> disease". Yet this is the same error that led nutritionists to the bad >> advice of "Eat less fat to avoid heart disease". Only a controlled study >> which actually tests the hypothesis can separate mere correlations and true >> causes. Do we know if cannabis correlates with depression because depressed >> people seek it to self-medicate? We might observe a similar correlation >> between depression and SSRI use, but we know SSRIs are used to treat >> depression, so it makes sense. We don't conclude though that SSRIs cause >> depression. >> >> If your claim is that cannabis causes depression, you need to point to a >> study that takes two groups of subjects, subjects one group's members to >> regular cannabis use and another that prohibits cannabis use among members, >> and then study whether the incidence of depression is higher in one group >> vs. the other. All science is based on "Observe, Form Theory, Test Theory". >> It's important that we realize all correlation studies (in all domains) are >> nothing but the first step "Observe". Forming policies or opinions from >> formed theories that haven't been tested is asking for trouble. (Just look >> at the current US and now world health crisis due to moving people to >> low-fat diets when the only basis was a correlational study (since >> disproved by controlled testing)). >> >> >>> yet they exists and they seems correctly done... maybe it's >>> prohibitionist agenda.. I know for myself that I can't control my cannabis >>> usage and when I was using, I was abusing and that certainly did not help >>> me at that time... But if you think cannabis abuse is a fairy tale... fine >>> with me... and if you think it is not, but it has absolutely no side >>> effect... ok... I won't agree with you but it's your belief... and I've >>> mine. >>> >> >> I don't see where are you getting this from out of what I said. >> >> > I'm getting at that you don't know the various studies, but you know they > are bad, and only point out correlation without anything else... well, you > can be bad faith and absolutely sure cannabis is absolutely safe... ok > then... but can I ask you studies that shows that too ? > > I said nothing either for or against cannabis use. I only cautioned that correlational studies cannot be used to draw conclusions ever, in any domain of inquriy. That's the only point I wanted to make. (I'll retreat back into the dark now) Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
