On 15 Jan 2015, at 20:47, John Clark wrote:
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
> In many religion, God has no name
And yet somehow that doesn't prevent them from yammering on and on
and on about Mr. Noname.
Take my definition of God in the Plotinus paper. That is God = the set
of Gödel numbers of the true (in the standard model) sentences of
arithmetic.
If you were enough patient, I could explain that although the sound
machine cannot describe (name) God, they can name the singleton set
{God}. You can find a proof of this in the book "computability and
Logic" by Boolos, Jeffrey and Burguess. (It is a bit advanced stuff,
you might need to study the books).
There are transfinite ways fro machines to indirectly talk about what
they cannot talk. The most used is the conditionals.
> I think that atheists are more in love with the word God, and even
with some definition, than the theologian, who are used to compare
different conception of God.
Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins has said that "theology is
not a field of inquiry, it is little more than erudite noisemaking".
You don't cite the context, and I am not sure which theologians he has
in mind. Strictly speaking, I can only say that this is a non
reasonable statements, and abuse of generalization at the least.
I suspect it means the aristotelian theologians, who believes in both
a material world, and in a non material world. They are wrong on this,
but even in that case, that does not entail that all their sayings are
wrong.
Theology is banned from academy since +523.
That might explain why theology has not made so much progresses (if
not regressed in some place).
Cosmologist Lawrence Krauss also has something interesting to say
about theologians and theology:
"In regards to theology not being a real subject,
Which theology?
saying not a real subject means "I know that my theology (the monist
materialist Aristotelian metaphysics) is the correct one.
There is a confusion between a subject, and the human treatment of the
subject.
Obviously Krauss has in mind only the Aristotelian theology, that is
the one with a creator and a creation.
But it still believe in the creation, where a platonist theologian
*doubt* about that, for a rational reason (basically the dream
argument; many children find it by itself).
I put this challenge out to all theologians. Name me one piece of
knowledge theology has contributed to human society in the last 500
years.
Well, basically 0, even since 1500 years. We know why.
But if you accept going 2500 years earlier, then it is fair to say
that the theologian gave the laws, mathematics and the natural sciences.
When I speak to theologians, they always seem to answer “well, what
do you mean by knowledge?”, but when I talk to chemists, physicists
and medical doctors, they give me concrete facts straight away not
this epistemological stuff."
What about step 4?
In this list some people have reasonable problem with the step 8, and
more rarer with step 7. But only you have a problem with the step 3. I
challenged you to succeed explaining your problem to the list, and you
did not convince any one.
What about doing the minimal amount of study in computer science and
mathematical logic to see hows the problems are translated in
arithmetic. Are you aware that the notions of Turing universal
machine, and of computation, are arithmetical notions?
Scientists are agnostic if only methodologically, and never commit
ontological commitment. Only assumptions, and rules of reasoning and
verifying.
Bruno
John K Clark
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