On 16 Jan 2015, at 22:24, John Clark wrote:
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Take my definition of God in the Plotinus paper. That is God = the
set of Gödel numbers of the true (in the standard model) sentences
of arithmetic.
So since according to you it was Christianity who invented the idea
that God was a intelligent conscious being I guess all those statues
that the Egyptians and Babylonians carved were of the set of Godel
numbers that were sentences of arithmetic. It must be tricky making
a statue of Godel numbers, but somehow they pulled it off.
I have never said that christians invented the notion of personal god.
Only that they have enforced that definition at above the time they
bannished the scientific inquiry in the domain.
> Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins has said that "theology is
not a field of inquiry, it is little more than erudite noisemaking".
> You don't cite the context,
OK, when Dawkins said that he also said "theology should not be
taught or have a department at Oxford where I teach". Thomas
Jefferson would have agreed with him, he founded the University of
Virginia and insisted that "a professorship of theology should have
no place in our institution".
No, problem. It is indeed annoying that some academies allows
confessional theologies without allowing the non-confessional one.
> and I am not sure which theologians he has in mind.
I think he was referring to the sort of theologians that breathe.
You should quote me entirely. We were talking about the two main type
of theology: the one with some belief in an ontological creation
(like Aristotle, christians, atheists, etc.) and those agnostic on
this (Plato, greek, indians, all classical universal machines, etc.).
>> Cosmologist Lawrence Krauss also has something interesting to say
about theologians and theology:
"In regards to theology not being a real subject, I put this
challenge out to all theologians. Name me one piece of knowledge
theology has contributed to human society in the last 500 years.
When I speak to theologians, they always seem to answer “well, what
do you mean by knowledge?”, but when I talk to chemists, physicists
and medical doctors, they give me concrete facts straight away not
this epistemological stuff."
>Which theology?
What a flabby gutless mealymouthed reply, if it's not "what do you
mean by knowledge?" its "Which theology?"! Nobody would ask for
such a ridiculous "clarification" unless they had nothing better to
respond with. If you asked a astronomer to name one piece of
knowledge astronomy has contributed to human society in the last 500
years he'd just tell you and would have no need to resort to these
silly evasions; he'd name something, lots and lots of things actually.
Sorry, I meant: "which theologian" and is the same question as above.
> What about step 4?
What about the blunders in step 3?
You did not succeed in showing them, and never answered the many
refutation of them by many people on the list. In all case you either
begged the question, or changed the definitions, or ... accepted the
conclusion but adding ad hominem irrelevant unrelated thing of the
type "my niece can also prove this", which is why I asked to you what
your niece thinks about the next step (4).
Bruno
John K Clark
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