On 19 Jan 2015, at 07:41, Kim Jones wrote:
On 19 Jan 2015, at 4:40 pm, Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote:
That you consider "mod 4" to be a qualifier is just a convention of
language. If we were talking about time what's six hours after
1900: answer 0100, because there the convention is mod 24. But my
serious point is that arithmetic is a model of countable things we
invented and it's not some magic that controls what exists.
What leads you to say relations between numbers are invented rather
than discovered? Will the person who proves (or disproves) the
Goldbach conjecture invent that truth (or falsehood), or will he
discover it?
Jason
This is indeed the core issue. It seems that whether you believe in
this or not is really a matter of personal taste because it actually
cannot be proven either way.
I merely simplify it by saying (via comp) that number alone is real.
Mathematics is the means by which we are learning to understand the
way reality is encoded, so naturally enough, we should suppose that
Mathematics shares some of the transcendental qualities of number.
Did we invent Math or did Math invent us? That's now better put as
"we invented our altogether reasonable belief that we invented Math"
and there is a line of reasoning that explains why we universal
machines would suppose that, something that means that we
continually fail to see that the much longed-for ToE has been hiding
all along in plain sight. It's very annoying, I agree.
In much the same way, a composer writing a piece of music feels that
the object in sound he is creating is actually more like something
discovered than created, the work involved in composing the notes
and rhythms etc. more like the effort required to polish the muck
off something to reveal its true nature.
Mathematics is just the infinity of relations between numbers. Your
realisation of that perhaps entails that you worry less about the
nature of Math - that's not the issue.
The real issue is (wait for it) "what is number?" Here, only taste
and acts of faith can have any currency. We all kind of need to get
over ourselves regarding this, I think.
As I said: the world is divided into two tribes, in all cultures
and at all times.
These are: the Gay Platonist Mystics who believe number cannot be
accounted for (even by God) and are annoyingly happy with that, and
the Tough Guy Aristotelian SWAT team who shoot mystics on sight
because they don't serve their type around here.
I also believe I am the first human to draw attention to this
fundamental syzygy of human belief types. I don't think you can
reduce Platonist and Aristotelian to something else. Humans confront
the ultimate questions wearing one or the other of these two masks.
I think.
Yes, simply because either the physical universe is real (exists in
some ontological basic sense), or it is not, and must be explained
from something else.
We simply cannot know certain things, boys and girls. There is a
limitation to knowledge. Deutsch is wrong. Get over it already.
Incompleteness. There is always more - mathematical reality:
uncountably infinite. And expanding. And accelerating.
So, it's a simulation - who cares. I gotta tell ya it's a fucking
great simulation and I reckon VR still has a long way to go to beat
it. I love it.
Well, with computationalism, the physical, psychological and spiritual
realities are not simulation. Only our immaterial bodies and mind are,
but this is why, by the FPI, we are confronted to a sum of all
emulations, and that sum is a priori not emulable, although some
chunks of it might be.
Bruno
Don't ask what is being simulated, please!
Kim
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