On 03 Feb 2015, at 06:54, Samiya Illias wrote:
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 10:56 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 02 Feb 2015, at 06:37, Samiya Illias wrote:
On 02-Feb-2015, at 6:12 am, LizR <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2 February 2015 at 00:15, Samiya Illias
<[email protected]> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 1:01 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote:
There is a difference between advancing a theory in a spirit of
agnosticism and being convinced you know the truth and that
everyone else is wrong.
Hmm...
Someday, I hope and pray, when you're blessed with faith, perhaps
you'll understand me.
As other observed that's close to the worst authority argument. By
"worst" I don't make a moral judgment, but it is worst in the sense
that it is not just invalid, but it makes the honest people
automatically doubting your message.
I am not presenting an argument above. I'm just saying that this is
something to do with feeling/experiencing/qualia? so I cannot
explain it nor do I expect anyone who doesn't to understand it. I
know its not valid. That is why I hope Someday...
Note that it *can* be valid as a personal thought, tough. But when you
make it public, it is patronizing per-authority argument. Well, I
don't know, but that what is the universal machine thinks for herself.
And vice versa, if you are blessed with faith in reason.
Thanks! :)
Reason is the best tool, if not the only tool (at some level)
I agree. Reason is a tool, and perhaps the best tool, which is to be
used to approach reality.
Assuming there is one common to all of us.
to survive the unreasonable (arithmetical) reality, and to maximize
partial relative control.
Unfortunately "reason" gives the ability to lie and manipulate the
others at different levels.
Both reason and religion have been abused over and over again
Yes, like drugs (medication). It is in he human nature, but I think we
do progress, and can still progress.
Then reason shows that arithmetic is already full of life, indeed
full of an infinity of universal machines competing to provide your
infinitely many relatively consistent continuations.
Incompleteness imposes, at least formally, a soul (a first person),
an observer (a first person plural), a "god" (an independent simple
but deep truth) to any machine believing in the RA axioms together
with enough induction axioms. I know you believe in them.
The lexicon is
p truth God
[]p provable Intelligible (modal logic, G and G*)
[]p & p the soul (modal logic, S4Grz)
[]p & <>t intelligible matter (with p sigma_1) (modal logic, Z1,
Z1*)
[]p & sensible matter (with p sigma_1) (modal logic, X1, X1*)
You need to study some math,
I have been wanting to but it seems such an uphill task. Yet, its a
mountain I would like to climb :)
7 + 0 = 7. You are OK with this? Tell me.
Are you OK with the generalisation? For all numbers n, n + 0 = n.
Right?
to see that this give eight quite different view the universal
machines develop on themselves.
Reminds me of this verse [http://quran.com/69/17 ]:
And the angels are at its edges. And there will bear the Throne of
your Lord above them, that Day, eight [of them].
It is like that: The four first (plotinian) hypostases live
harmonically in the arithmetical heaven:
God
Terrestrial Intelligible Divine Intelligible
Universal Soul
But then the Universal Soul falls, and you get the (four) matters, and
the "bastard calculus":
Intelligible terrestrial matter Intelligible Divine
matter
Sensible terrestrial matter Sensible Divine matter
Here divine means mainly what is true about the machine/number and not
justifiable by the numbers.
It provides a universal person, with a soul, consistent extensions,
beliefs, and some proximity (or not) to God (which is the "ultimate"
semantic that the machine cannot entirely figure out by herself
(hence the faith).
Interesting!
All universal machine looking inward discover an inexhaustible
reality, with absolute and relative aspects.
Babbage discovered the universal machine, (and understood its
universality). The universal machine, the mathematical concept, will
be (re)discovered and made more precise by a bunch of mathematical
logicians, like Turing, Post, Church, Kleene.
You are using such a universal system right now, even plausibly two of
them: your brain and your computer. They are a key concept in computer
science. They suffer a big prize for their universality, as it makes
them possible to crash, be lied, be lost, be deluded. They can know
that they are universal, and so they can know the consequences.
The religion which recognizes the universal machine and her classical
theology might be the one which will spread easily in the galaxy in
the forthcoming millenaries. (Independently of being true or false,
actually).
Bruno
Samiya
If you want to convince me, you have to first convince the universal
person associated to the Löbian machine, I'm afraid.
I am not pretending that the machine theology applies to us, but it
is a good etalon to compare the theologies/religions/reality-
conceptions. The problem is that we have to backtrack to Plato,
where what we see is only the border of something, that we can't
see, but yet can intuit and talk about (a bit like mathematics or
music)
Bruno
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