On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 6:14 PM, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 , Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> True, and most people have never even heard of the Turing Test, but >>> every human being who has ever lived has implicitly assumed that if >>> something behaves intelligently then it is conscious, >>> >> >> > Perhaps every human, perhaps most. Who knows? >> > > Who knows? I know. Some silly philosophers may have fun playing the part > of a solipsist when they want to sound provocative and interesting, but I > don't think for one second they or anyone else this side of a looney bin > actually believes they're the only conscious being in the universe. > > > >> > I was always confused by the idea that rocks are not conscious. >> > > And I don't believe that for one second either, I think you're just trying > to sound provocative and interesting. > I am guilty of trying that, for sure. Those of us that don't look like Brad Pitt have to figure out other ways to get by. But in this case I am being quite honest. I remember asking my parents about this, and they seemed worried, like you, that I might have some mental problem. So I learned to shut up about it, but was never fully convinced. I have no hope of convincing you, though. You have your own model of my motivations, and I completely understand that your are skeptical. > > >> Darwin's Theory of Evolution is about everything life can do, if >>> you're alive and you're conscious then Evolution is responsible for both. >>> >> >> > Humans apply pressure on the floor when standing up, so Evolution is >> responsible for mass and gravity? >> > > No, but Evolution is responsible for the fact that humans can stand up, or > that humans can do anything at all for that matter > So evolution is responsible for the fact that organisms apply pressure on surfaces? > > > >> >>> There are more hidden assumptions here that you are not addressing. >>>> >>> >>> >> List them then. I'm all ears. >>> >> >> > The assumptions that consciousness is something organisms do, >> > > That is not an assumption that is a matter of direct experience and thus > needs no proof; I am a organism and I am conscious. > But do you generate it? Is it something you do? You're avoiding the question. > > > that conscious is a byproduct of something >> > > If Darwin was correct then the above must be true. And I think Darwin was > correct. > That doesn't follow unless you can show that consciousness is something organisms generate. > > >> > that consciousness is generated somehow, >> > > When I'm asleep > This is trivially false. We are conscious while dreaming. > or under anesthesia I'm not conscious > You can't prove that. That's an assumption. > but when I wake up I am, so at that point a generator must turn on that > somehow produces consciousness. > > >> > that conscious either has an evolutionary advantage or emerges from >> things that have evolutionary advantages. >> > > As I've said over and over and over, if Darwin was right the above MUST be > true. And you said "there are *more* hidden assumptions here that you are > not addressing" so I was expecting something new, but you just rehashed the > same old tired objections I've been hearing on this list for years. > I agree that these objections are old and perhaps even boring, but that doesn't mean that "because I say so" is a valid way to get rid of them. Telmo. > > John K Clark > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
