On 13 Mar 2015, at 18:06, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 5:44 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 3/13/2015 12:19 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 1:25 AM, meekerdb <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 3/12/2015 1:21 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
Not me. I'm the opposite, I was always confused by the idea that
rocks are not conscious.
If you ever have an operation, I suggest you check to see that your
anesthesiologist is not confused.
There's maybe a difference between being a conscious entity and
being conscious of something.
Telmo.
So you think you could be conscious without being conscious *of*
something?
I'm not sure, as per my response to Bruno. But this is not what I
meant to suggest here. My argument is simply that anaesthetics
appear to allow one to not be conscious of the external environment.
We can only speculate if one remains conscious of some internal
environment.
I say "appear to allow", because in fact there is only two thing we
know for sure about this:
1) one is not capable of controlling one's muscles
2) one is not capable of forming memories
We assume and hope that:
3) one is not capable of perceiving the environment, namely the pain
from the surgery
But unfortunately we cannot be sure about 3). Some horror movie
scenarios can be true.
We can assume that there is a correspondence between consciousness
and intelligent action, but we re already on shaky grounds because
of dreaming, as you mention. With dreaming 1) holds but not 2).
In the dreams, we do send the information to act on the muscles, but
they are inhibited, and instead we act on our body representation,
that is our "virtual dreamy body".
If states exist where both 1) and 2) holds, we have no means to know
about them for sure.
OK.
This leads me to my doubt about rocks beings conscious, that I had
since I was a little kid.
I think that's wrong and that's why I think consciousness requires
physics - dreams not withstanding.
Or physics requires consciousness.
OK.
Bruno
Telmo.
Brent
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