Hi, I think something with which he couldn't disagree with would be the different steps explained avoiding using pronous like you/I... it's possible to do so using N, Nx, Ny, Nxx, Nxy, Nyx, Nyy, ... notations and/or even using graphics, showing duplication/MWI with splitting or comp (infinity of computations that support the consciousness of the being N diverging at each steps)/MWI with infinity of fungible universes diverging at each measure, entails the same expectation and probabilities... what is absurd in Clark point of view, is that he says that he is a proponent of MWI and in *that context* accept probability usage *because* you can't meet your double, but not in a duplication (or computationalist) point of view (or havinf the ability to meet or not, doesn't change anything)... where a priori probabilities can't be defined (seems he thinks prediction is something that is forbidden when talking about 1st person POV)... while it's all the same (from a probabilist point of view).
Regards, Quentin 2015-03-22 20:38 GMT+01:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>: > Another comment on the same post by Liz. > > On 22 Mar 2015, at 03:23, LizR wrote: > > On 21 March 2015 at 22:35, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I remember a long discussion where John ended up changing his claim that >> step 3 was wrong to it just being trivial. But then he still refused to >> keep reading. At this point I decided he was not serious about the issue. >> > > Trivial is good, the argument is being developed in small steps after all. > But John appears to just not want to think about it, > > > No. If that was the case he would not claim having found a mistake. > > > > > he's sure it's wrong > > > But do you have any idea of *what* is wrong? > > Do you have an idea of what J. Clark is thinking being wrong? > > He does not accept the First Person Indeterminacy. What could that mean? > > John Clark has meant for a period that he meant that the Helsinki bet was > "W and M". > > He has eventually understood that this does not work, given the simple > definition of 1p and 3p used in the reasoning. > > So his argument has oscillate between "tautological", or "the pronouns are > ambiguous". > Each time the pronouns were disambiguate, he said tautological. When it > was asked to move then to the next step, silence, or sometime later, the > pronouns were again ambiguous, and he seems to be stuck in that circle. > > Its use of insults also discourages the belief that he might have an > argument. > > And as Quentin witnessed correctly imo, now he lies. Even gross lies, like > pretending that I fear that silicon brain could be intelligent (when I > explain why I think they are already intelligent when Löbian). > > Bruno > > > > and he refuses to contemplate the possibility that *he's* wrong, even > though he's the only person who thinks he has a good argument, or indeed > any argument at all. > > This reminds me of trying to argue with my son (who's 16) - he's sure he's > right and won't even think about the opposing viewpoint. That's probably > normal when you're 16, but ... > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
