Le 25 avr. 2015 08:59, "meekerdb" <[email protected]> a écrit : > > On 4/24/2015 4:31 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> Le 25 avr. 2015 01:25, "Quentin Anciaux" <[email protected]> a écrit : >> > >> > >> > Le 25 avr. 2015 01:21, "Stathis Papaioannou" <[email protected]> a écrit : >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Saturday, April 25, 2015, Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> 2015-04-24 23:07 GMT+02:00 Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected]>: >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> On Friday, April 24, 2015, spudboy100 via Everything List < [email protected]> wrote: >> > >>>> >> > >>>> For some, its a conundrum, or in any case see it as a block to cloning, or a slam dunk into the trash bin of physics and philosophy. For me, no. >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> Philosophically there is no problem with the no clone theorem, since even if a perfect copy is needed to preserve consciousness the no clone theorem does not preclude perfect copying. >> > >>> >> > >>> Practically there is no problem with the no clone theorem since your brain undergoes gross change from moment to moment and you feel that you remain the same person. >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> That's true, unless even in principle what gives rise to consciousness is not duplicable, accessible to us... (It's dubious, since our reality/nature did succeed to make it; at the very least for me). But if reality as it isn doesn't give us access to that (whatever we do, forever, because it is impossible like going faster than the speed of light under relativity, or going before the big bang as the time is beginning with it... and that indeed assumes a theory like computationalism is false), then it is a problem even phisophisically (that is if you still want to follow logic and still want what you're saying to be meaningfull) >> > > >> > > >> > > The no clone theorem refers to physical copying, >> > >> > I know. >> > >> > so it isn't relevant if consciousness is due to something else, like an immaterial soul. >> > >> > It is if perfect physical copying is not enough because it misses something. >> >> So to try to be clearer, if reality as it is does not give us access to what makes us conscious because whatever it is that makes us conscious is not in any of the physical properties, > > > What does "access" mean in the above. I have access to my consciousness; I can reflect that I'm conscious, a kind of inner perception. What other "access" could there be? Do you mean the ability to make a copy or a conscious thing?
Access means the ability to copy the property that makes a conscious person conscious. If perfect physical copy cannot copy that even so it is a complete physical copy missing nothing physically speaking, because even that property is not comprised in the physical properties we have copied, by definition that copy would not be conscious. Again to be clear that's not what I believe, but it.'s an argument against that the in principle copy is always possible and meaningfull whatever reality is. Quentin > > >> then even if you were able to make such a perfect physical copy, it would still not be you or even conscious because by definition that perfect copy does not have the conscious property which is not physical and cannot therefore be copied. > > > You seem to define "access" as an ability to physically reproduce, and then you say if we don't have access we can't physically reproduce consciousness. Which is then reduced to a tautology. > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
