On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> wrote:
> Telmo Menezes wrote: > > >> >> On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 8:14 AM, Bruce Kellett <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> meekerdb wrote: >> >> On 5/15/2015 10:29 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> >> The AI that I envisage will probably be based on a learning >> program of some sort, that will have to learn in much the >> same way as an infant human learns. I doubt that we will >> ever be able to create an AI that is essentially an >> intelligent adult human when it is first turned on. >> >> >> I agree with that, but once an AI is realized it will be >> possible to copy it. And if it's digital it will be possible to >> implement it using different hardware. If it's not digital, it >> will (in principle) be able to implement it arbitrarily closely >> with a digital device. And we will have the same question - >> what is that makes that hardware device conscious? I don't see >> any plausible answer except "Running the program it instantiates." >> >> >> But that does not imply that consciousness is itself a computation. >> There is not some subroutine in your AI the is labelled "this >> subroutine computes consciousness". Consciousness is a function of >> the whole functioning system, not of some particular feature. That >> is why I think identifying consciousness with computation is in fact >> adding some additional magic to the machine. >> >> >> So you don't believe that performing the same computations that your >> brain does in another substrate will produce a copy of your mind? If you >> don't believe that, then you must believe in some unknown property of >> matter (magic?). If you do, then you believe that consciousness supervenes >> on computation. Consciousness arose in nature by a process of natural >> evolution. >> >> How do you know that? >> Proto-consciousness gave some evolutionary advantage, so it grew and >> developed. >> >> How do you know that? >> Nature did not at some point add the fact that it was a computation, >> and then it suddenly become conscious. >> Of course not. Nobody claims that. >> Consciousness is a computation only in the trivial sense that any >> physical process can be regarded as a computation, or mapping taking >> some input to some output. There is not some special, magical class >> of computations that are unique to consciousness. Consciousness is >> an evolved bulk property, not just one specific feature of that bulk. >> >> How do you know it's evolved? >> > > Are you seriously going to argue that homo sapiens did *not* arise by a > process of natural selection, aka evolution? No, Darwinian evolution is my favourite scientific theory. What I am arguing is that we don't know if consciousness is an evolved trait. It is perfectly possible to imagine darwinian evolution working without consciousness, even to the human intelligence level (producing philosophical zombies). For example, if consciousness is more fundamental than matter, then evolution is something that happens within consciousness, not a generator of it. Telmo. > > > Bruce > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
