On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 11:59 AM, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Terren Suydam <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> Whether post-duplication-machine or post-many-worlds-duplication, "I" >> refers to the person having a subjective experience. >> > > OK. > > > >> > >> Post duplication, we both agree that the persons diverge in either >> scenario. So there are two first-person experiences, but we can refer to >> *THE* first-person experience of either person: >> > > But you can't refer to > *THE* > future > first-person experience > of the Helsinki Man because that is plural not singular if a duplicating > chamber is involved. And that's why the question "what one city will he > see?" is ridiculous; you in effect said the same thing yourself in your > last post when you admitted that personal pronouns must be used and not > their referent because they have no referent. In other words in Bruno's > thought experiment all the many personal pronouns in it are utterly > ridiculous and have no more meaning than a burp. > > > >> The reasons you are giving why they are not equivalent only bear on the >> third-person perspective: > > > Two first person perspectives are NOT equivalent to one third party > perspective. And in Bruno's thought experiment there is simply no > alternative, like it or not after the duplication there are two first > person perspectives around (that's what duplication means) so they must be > dealt with. > > I agree 100%. But you are still taking the objective stance on this. You are describing the situation from a vantage point outside the system, saying: before the duplication, there is one first-person perspective. After the duplication, there are two. Absolutely correct. But it's not relevant to understanding step 3. You keep cutting out the parts of my posts where I say: *What is it like to be a person going through a duplication experience? * I'd be interested to hear your take on exactly that... what would it be like? If you do take up the challenge, please stay with the first-person perspective. Let's not keep going around in circles. And you're also not addressing (or cutting out of my posts) when I say: *From the first-person perspective (what it's like to experience it), a duplication experiment is indistinguishable from a many-worlds splitting. * I don't understand why you won't address these. It's the heart of the matter. You can't claim to have refuted step 3 unless you deal with those points. Terren > >> . >> > >> consciousness supervenes on physical brains (assuming computationalism) >> > > Yes, and considering the gargantuan amount of evidence in its favor only > a fool would not assume > computationalism > . > > John K Clark > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
