On 10/13/2015 3:04 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On 13/10/2015 11:43 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2015-10-13 14:26 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
...
Who said matter was the end point?
You... why do you insist on matter, if it is not primary and can
be made of something else ?
Who said matter was not primary?
Who said it was ? If it is not, then reality can be explained in
terms of computations alone, and matter could be a product of
computations... You dislike that idea, that somehow must mean matter
is primary in your view... so IMO, you're saying matter is primary,
don't you ?
I am not denying that, in all likelihood, matter is primary. I do not
have any problems with that idea. In fact, it is a very productive
position to take, and has led to all manner of useful results: none of
which have been produced by computationalism. Matter is primary, and
mathematics is simply a game played according to a set of rules
developed from our experience of the physical world. The utility of
mathematics is completely explained by the fact that it is based on
physical experience. The utility of physics is explained in the same way.
Arguments over "primary matter" are really just semantic. If we have a
theory of the world its ontology is primary whatever it is. Whether we
call that ur-stuff matter or a ray in Hilbert space or a computation is
just picking a name; whatever it is it us "primary" and that means it's
not analyzed in terms of something else (at least in the given putative
theory of the world). This is most obvious in physics where "primary
matter" has been Platonic solids, solids/liquids/gases, atoms, vortices,
wave functions, consistent histories, strings, D-branes,... And
similarly in mathematics at different times the fundamental stuff has
been points/planes/lines, integers, sets, homotopies, categories,
propositions,... There is no definition of "primary matter" or "basis
of mathematics" because what is primary is in a sense indefinable except
to say it's primary.
Brent
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