On 27 October 2015 at 16:57, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 27/10/2015 4:50 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > On 27 October 2015 at 14:22, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On 27/10/2015 1:13 pm, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> On 27 Oct 2015, at 12:15 PM, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> On 27/10/2015 12:05 pm, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Bruce Kellett < >> <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On 27/10/2015 10:52 am, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> On Monday, October 26, 2015, Bruce Kellett < <[email protected]> >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> > On 27/10/2015 8:16 am, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >>> > >>> > On Tuesday, 27 October 2015, John Clark < <[email protected]> >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> so where does semantic content come from? >>> >> >>> >> From examples in the physical world. You can give as many botanical >>> definitions of the word "tree" as you want but it will just be a word >>> defined by other words that are themselves defined by yet more words that >>> are.... If you tried to dig for meaning all you'd find is a endless loop, >>> it would just be a game where words are manipulated according to the rules >>> of botany until somebody forgot about definitions and pointed to the ASCII >>> string "t-r-e-e" and then pointed to a large photosynthesizing organism >>> made largely of cellulose that exists in the physical world. Then even a >>> martian would notice a correspondence between this game of manipulating >>> symbols called "botany" that humans had invented and the way these large >>> photosynthesizing organism made largely of cellulose live. >>> > >>> > What about a virtual world with trees and observers, and no I/O >>> devices connecting it to outside trees? >>> > >>> > I think Brent answered this in his response to Russell. The trees of >>> the ordinary physical world do not connect with anything outside this world >>> either in order to have semantic content. A virtual world would be no >>> different in this respect. The point is that the content comes from >>> something other formal symbol manipulation -- things such as pointing and >>> sensory responses. There has to be something other than the consciousness >>> with which the consciousness can interact. >>> >>> I take it you've never played video games. >>> >>> Not with any regularity. But I take it that when you play such games, >>> you interact with the simulated environment via the provided interface -- >>> the game only interacts with itself in so far as the original programmers >>> designed it to. The semantic content is provided from outside in either >>> case. >>> >> >> So what do you think would happen if an AI, or uploaded mind were >> uploaded into a virtual reality that was fully disconnected from the >> physical world? Would that mind no longer be conscious? >> >> Difficult to tell because, by construction, you can't ask it. But if both >> the AI and the VR are programmed by some external intelligence, semantic >> content might be provided in that way. >> >> >> But once programmed, there may be no further evidence of semantic >> content. The computer could be fired into space, and the programmers and >> their entire civilisation might die. If aliens find it and somehow work out >> the syntax, there is no way for them to work out the meaning behind it, >> since there is no intrinsic meaning in circuits turning on and off. So what >> is the explanation here: the meaning is still there because the long-dead >> programmers had thought about it in a particular way? >> >> >> Could be. If the program is no longer running, the meaning might not be >> recoverable. >> > > > The program is running, but the programmers and their civilisation are > gone. How is the meaning recoverable? > > > Not by the outsider, certainly. But to the insider......who can tell? It > depends on what the programmers originally built in. > Then that means that there is meaning intrinsic to a certain pattern of circuits turning on and off. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
