On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 12:07 AM, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 27/10/2015 3:12 pm, Jason Resch wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 10:25 PM, Bruce Kellett <[email protected] > > wrote: > >> On 27/10/2015 12:27 pm, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 8:15 PM, Bruce Kellett < >> <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On 27/10/2015 12:05 pm, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Bruce Kellett < >>> <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> On 27/10/2015 10:52 am, Jason Resch wrote: >>>> >>>> On Monday, October 26, 2015, Bruce Kellett < >>>> <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > On 27/10/2015 8:16 am, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >>>> > >>>> > On Tuesday, 27 October 2015, John Clark < <[email protected]> >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> so where does semantic content come from? >>>> >> >>>> >> From examples in the physical world. You can give as many botanical >>>> definitions of the word "tree" as you want but it will just be a word >>>> defined by other words that are themselves defined by yet more words that >>>> are.... If you tried to dig for meaning all you'd find is a endless loop, >>>> it would just be a game where words are manipulated according to the rules >>>> of botany until somebody forgot about definitions and pointed to the ASCII >>>> string "t-r-e-e" and then pointed to a large photosynthesizing organism >>>> made largely of cellulose that exists in the physical world. Then even a >>>> martian would notice a correspondence between this game of manipulating >>>> symbols called "botany" that humans had invented and the way these large >>>> photosynthesizing organism made largely of cellulose live. >>>> > >>>> > What about a virtual world with trees and observers, and no I/O >>>> devices connecting it to outside trees? >>>> > >>>> > I think Brent answered this in his response to Russell. The trees of >>>> the ordinary physical world do not connect with anything outside this world >>>> either in order to have semantic content. A virtual world would be no >>>> different in this respect. The point is that the content comes from >>>> something other formal symbol manipulation -- things such as pointing and >>>> sensory responses. There has to be something other than the consciousness >>>> with which the consciousness can interact. >>>> >>>> I take it you've never played video games. >>>> >>>> Not with any regularity. But I take it that when you play such games, >>>> you interact with the simulated environment via the provided interface -- >>>> the game only interacts with itself in so far as the original programmers >>>> designed it to. The semantic content is provided from outside in either >>>> case. >>>> >>> >>> So what do you think would happen if an AI, or uploaded mind were >>> uploaded into a virtual reality that was fully disconnected from the >>> physical world? Would that mind no longer be conscious? >>> >>> Difficult to tell because, by construction, you can't ask it. But if >>> both the AI and the VR are programmed by some external intelligence, >>> semantic content might be provided in that way. >>> >> >> So what you're saying is that depending on what is on the mind of the >> programmer, the AI within the virtual reality may or may not be conscious? >> >> >> Of course. You wouldn't want to be the result of an incompetent >> programmer now, would you? >> > > My desires are irrelevant in the matter. I think I would be conscious in > the same way whether God, or evolution programmed our DNA. > > The name of the programmer is irrelevant -- his competence is not. You > would not be conscious in the same way if your brain operated only on > Tuesday afternoons. > But then it would be a different program. If the program is the same, it doesn't matter who wrote it nor how it was written nor what the programmer had for breakfast. > > > Does what is on the mind of makers of video games make a difference to the >> game playing experience (assuming the same code was written either way)? >> >> >> But you are providing the meaning to the game you are playing. >> > > As it would to an AI within such a game of an entirely isolated computer. > > > But you are assuming that there is a clear distinction between the AI and > the encompassing VR. How is this accomplished? > > Not necessarily. Is there a clear distinction between the atoms of your brain and the atoms of your environment? How is that accomplished? Moreover, how is it relevant? The AI and the environment (or perhaps more accurately described as the sensory input generating program) might be separate processes, or they might be subprocesses of some larger program. From the conscious AI's perspective, it cannot differentiate between either of the two possibilities. Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
